The Scribery to the People bill

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

WHEREAS the role of the Scribery of Abbavilla, viz. keeping the public record of the laws of Talossa up-to-date is vitally important;
and
WHEREAS we have had problems for years keeping the Scribery not only staffed, but active and actually doing their job; and
WHEREAS the power of the elected Government to make this happen is attenuated due to the Scribery being part of the Royal Household, and thus overseen by the King rather than the Seneschál and Ministers, and;
WHEREAS the King of Talossa clearly has better things to do with his time than actively oversee the activity of officials of the Royal Household, and;
WHEREAS in civilised countries the laws are published by the Ministry of Justice or equivalent

BE IT ENACTED by the King, Cosâ and Senäts of Talossa in Ziu assembled as follows:

1. Title C, Section 1.2 of El Lexhátx, reading as follows:

1.2. The Scribery of Abbavilla, headed by the Scribe of Abbavilla. The functions of the Scribery are to maintain and publish the Organic and statutory laws of the Kingdom(49RZ1)

1.2.1. The Scribe of Abbavilla shall maintain all laws in L'Anuntzia dels Legeux, insofar as possible, with the same content that was approved by the Ziu, except that amending acts that refer to section numbers in pre-existing statutes that were changed by the Scribery shall be construed as referring to the equivalent section numbers in the amended statutes as originally enacted. (45RZ25)

1.2.2. The Scribe of Abbavilla shall maintain el Lexhatx in accordance with the directions in Title Z. The Scribe shall thus advise all proposers of bills to the Clark on proper formatting of their bills to conform with Title Z. (47RZ14)

1.2.3 If the Scribe, or their deputy(s), finds an error in the formatting, grammar, or spelling of a bill which is currently in the Clark, or is alerted of same, they shall work with the sponsor of the bill to fix said error(s). (48RZ22)

1.2.3.1 The Scribe, or their deputy(s), shall publicize any proposed changes to a bill, with the approval of the author. The changes are deemed to have been implemented after they have been public for seven days, unless the changes are disallowed by the conditions of C.1.2.3.2 (48RZ22)

1.2.3.2 If, before the proposed changes are implemented, a petition of MCs representing at least 1/3 of the seats in the Cosa, or a petition of at least 1/3 of the Senators, goes before the Scribe in protest of the proposed changes to a bill, the changes cannot be implemented. (48RZ22)

is hereby deleted.

2. A new section of El Lexhátx, to be numbered as Title D, Section 2.5.2, to be added, as follows:

2.5.2. The Ministry of Justice shall include the Scribery of Abbavilla, headed by the Scribe of Abbavilla. The functions of the Scribery are to maintain and publish the Organic and statutory laws of the Kingdom(49RZ1)

2.5.2.1. The Scribe of Abbavilla shall maintain all laws in L'Anuntzia dels Legeux, insofar as possible, with the same content that was approved by the Ziu, except that amending acts that refer to section numbers in pre-existing statutes that were changed by the Scribery shall be construed as referring to the equivalent section numbers in the amended statutes as originally enacted. (45RZ25)

2.5.2.2. The Scribe of Abbavilla shall maintain el Lexhatx in accordance with the directions in Title Z. The Scribe shall thus advise all proposers of bills to the Clark on proper formatting of their bills to conform with Title Z. (47RZ14)

2.5.2.3 If the Scribe, or their deputy(s), finds an error in the formatting, grammar, or spelling of a bill which is currently in the Clark, or is alerted of same, they shall work with the sponsor of the bill to fix said error(s). (48RZ22)

2.5.2.3.1 The Scribe, or their deputy(s), shall publicize any proposed changes to a bill, with the approval of the author. The changes are deemed to have been implemented after they have been public for seven days, unless the changes are disallowed by the conditions of C.1.2.3.2 (48RZ22)

2.5.2.3.2 If, before the proposed changes are implemented, a petition of MCs representing at least 1/3 of the seats in the Cosa, or a petition of at least 1/3 of the Senators, goes before the Scribe in protest of the proposed changes to a bill, the changes cannot be implemented. (48RZ22)

Uréu q'estadra så:
Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN, MC
Sentatôr Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

The immediate effect of this bill would be that the Minister of Justice would be able to hire and fire the Scribe of Abbavilla as necessary. I envisage that in the long run the Scribery would become a Civil Service (i.e. non-political) appointment.

[Ian Plätschisch]

Just to be clear, no verbiage was changed?

I am also starting to think that the Royal Society may be better served if it were removed from the Royal Society (since it is currently suffering the exact same problem as the Scribery)

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

I absolutely support this bill, and I would wish to co-sponsor it, if I may.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Feb 3, 2017 16:26:10 GMT -6 Ian Plätschisch said:

Just to be clear, no verbiage was changed?

I am also starting to think that the Royal Society may be better served if it were removed from the Royal Society (since it is currently suffering the exact same problem as the Scribery)

No verbiage has been changed at all.

As for your second point, give me five seconds.

[Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H.]

I personally think the scribery should be under the Chancery so that it may be 100% apolitical.

We could have the scribe nominated by the secretary of state under advise of the seneschal. (Edit: and just to make it clear, the SoS would usually basically nominate whoever the Seneschal picks...)

The scribe would still be an indepedent office from the secretary of state, but would remain under the royal house even if not longer directly under the King.

But at least, it wouldn't depend on a political minister.

[Glüc da Dhi]

I like mpf's proposal.

[Eðo Grischun]

The Minister, herself even alludes that the immediate effect of this Bill would be that the Scribe of Abbavilla becomes a political appointment, at least in the short term.

MPF's proposal would be better in that the appointment remains non-political from the outset. I've always wondered why the Scribing duties were not a sub-office of the Chancery in the first place. It only works, though, if the Chancery doesn't come under attack. The Minister has already stated elsewhere that she seeks to remove the Chancery from enjoying it's fairly autonomous status within the royal household and instead placing it under direct Executive Control. At what point do we start calling this what it is? A blatant power grab by the Executive.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Feb 6, 2017 18:44:35 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

At what point do we start calling this what it is? A blatant power grab by the Executive.

Some people are principled monarchists; others would be the most guillotine-happy Republicans in the world, were the King not of the same political persuasion as them. I wonder which category the Senator fits under. I offer a thought experiment - if I were the Queen of Noise Talossa, I was neglecting my royal duties (because I didn't care about anything in Talossa except keeping all the power I had because ego), and a RUMP-led government wanted to thus take over those duties for me. What would you do?

The RUMP always used to pride themselves on being the party of activity - until the erstwhile "Chief of Staff*" gave up after the failure of his micromanagement strategies to produce sustainable activity from Cabinet ministers. Now we seem to be in a position where a RUMP Senator is making an argument where the King's neglect is better than the elected Government's activity. An allergy to "political appointments" (i.e. the elected government having actual responsibility) can simply not be indulged in an era where the King does nothing except defend his own position. Note that, once the Civil Service is up and running, the actual Scribe (and Prez of Royal Society) will be a Civil Service, not a political appointment. But the elected government will have political responsibility for the running of those entities - and will be punished at the ballot box for letting them fail.

I also note certain other figures who would be otherwise terrified at an "MPF power grab" supporting it as preferable to the elected Government taking responsibility. (Chancery reform is another thing which I will want to put on the Government's agenda - after Telecomuna is sorted out.) The main difference induced by this bill will be that the elected government will be responsible if the Scribery (or the Royal Society) is inactive. At the moment, the King is responsible - but only theoretically, because he clearly doesn't care. And there is no way to make him care. The argument for a non-political monarch running things only makes sense if the Monarch actually exercises his functions of his own free will. At the moment, frankly, I think we could be just as well advised to put the Crown on Dien's "ham sandwich".


* I originally wrote "Chief of State" here. But that's what he was, de facto.

[Eðo Grischun]

Feb 7, 2017 19:17:23 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Feb 6, 2017 18:44:35 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

At what point do we start calling this what it is? A blatant power grab by the Executive.

Some people are principled monarchists; others would be the most guillotine-happy Royalists in the world, if the King was not of the same political persuasion as them. I wonder which category the Senator fits under. I offer a thought experiment - if I were the Queen of Noise Talossa, I was neglecting my royal duties (because I didn't care about anything in Talossa except keeping all the power I had because ego), and a RUMP-led government wanted to thus take over those duties for me. What would you do?

The RUMP always used to pride themselves on being the party of activity - until the erstwhile "Chief of State" gave up after the failure of his micromanagement strategies to produce sustainable activity from Cabinet ministers. Now we seem to be in a position where a RUMP Senator is making an argument where the King's neglect is better than the elected Government's activity.

Honourable Minister, with respect, in this regard, what neglect? Both the Scribe and the Royal Society President are appointed by the Crown following a recommendation of the Prime Minister. Has the Prime Minister made requests to appoint a new Scribe or Dean that has gone unnoticed or unattended to by the King?

The King's activity level, high or low, has nothing to do with that of the Royal Officers. If the Royal Officers are behaving poorly then have the Seneschal use the powers granted to him to remove the deadwood and replace as required. Then use the Cabinet Act to bring about a national policy that will give you your executive control over how the Uni and Scribery should operate.

There is a way to fix the activity and mismanagement problems that we both agree exist.

This thing, though, has the added motive of demolishing the Crown Estate. Rather than have the Government work alongside the Royal Houses, you would rather burn the institutions to the ground and create a Democracy-on-Steroids-Super-Gov.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Firstly, I apologise to the Senator for editing my post while he was replying; I have only added, rather than removed, points.

Further, I am afraid that we see here the incoherence of the argument against this bill. Senator Grischün says:

If the Royal Officers are behaving poorly then have the Seneschal use the powers granted to him to remove the deadwood and replace as required.

But also elsewhere complains that:

the Scribe of Abbavilla becomes a political appointment

.

If the Seneschál hires and fires anyway, how is it not a political appointment? The status quo is self-contradictory.

In contrast, this Bill will make the positions Civil Service positions, and therefore truly non-political; once we have the necessary Cabinet Secretaries appointed, which is also something that this Government is working on.

As to the Scribery, I can confirm that yes, discussions are currently going on at Cabinet level in that regard.

[Eðo Grischun]

Beat me with the ninja edits..

Points above all still stand, including in reference to political responsibility.

The Heads of the Royal Houses live in fear of getting replace by the Prime Minister. The King needs an instruction from the Government if the Government wants the inactive deadwood replaced. The Prime Minister is actually ultimately responsible for the failings of any Royal Officer, not the King.

[Eðo Grischun]

Feb 7, 2017 21:07:01 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Firstly, I apologise to the Senator for editing my post while he was replying; I have only added, rather than removed, points.

Further, I am afraid that we see here the incoherence of the argument against this bill. Senator Grischün says:

If the Royal Officers are behaving poorly then have the Seneschal use the powers granted to him to remove the deadwood and replace as required.

But also elsewhere complains that:

the Scribe of Abbavilla becomes a political appointment

.

If the Seneschál hires and fires anyway, how is it not a political appointment? The status quo is self-contradictory.

In contrast, this Bill will make the positions Civil Service positions, and therefore truly non-political; once we have the necessary Cabinet Secretaries appointed, which is also something that this Government is working on.

As to the Scribery, I can confirm that yes, discussions are currently going on at Cabinet level in that regard.

No biggie on the edits. I seen both posts before you merged them and was going to quote them separate.. all good.

Yes, it's contradictory. But, there's a difference between a political appointee working in quango and one working deep in a Ministry. But, to be honest, last night I had forgot we changed the appointment process to the Seneschal. Anyway, there it is. The check and balance you seek already exists. You all just need to pull the lever on it.


And if it's eventual location is to be the Civil Service, why are you doing a via journey through Ministries first?

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Like I said: political responsibility. There is none in the Royal Household. This would not be an issue with a King who was an active everyday participant in Talossa, as the previous incumbent was (given all his known flaws).

[Eðo Grischun]

Feb 7, 2017 21:46:23 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Like I said: political responsibility. There is none in the Royal Household. This would not be an issue with a King who was an active everyday participant in Talossa, as the previous incumbent was (given all his known flaws).

That's kinda one of the benefits of Monarchy. Some posts shouldn't be overly political.

For example, in education, it has been seen in some places in the world what happens when politicians are given control over certain areas of education. What might start off as an effort to increase responsibility and accountability will lead to political debates such as creationism vs evolution being taught in the classrooms and will end with the posts being held by panderers.

The visible line of separation between the Royal Houses and the Government shouldn't be removed.


Again, I fail to see how King John's absence has any bearing on the inactivity of the Scribe or the Dean. In fact, come to think, isn't the Scribe GV and hasn't he been doing a brilliant job?