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Post by Inxheneu Crova on Nov 22, 2016 12:04:25 GMT -6
As the parent thread is beginning to grow unwieldy, as a public service I would like to address the points made by S:reu Plätschisch in the below post here. talossa.proboards.com/post/148545/threadLet us leave aside his reiteration of the "mea culpa, but so are you" argument that has so devastated the FreeDem campaign. Perhaps voters will indeed agree to ignore the existence of the last six months and refight the 49th Cosa election all over again. Seeing as the ModRads received a severe correction from the electorate in that contest, I don't why they would want to relive it - but never mind. Instead let us look at his view of government in this country. He now appears to acknowledge a minor role for the government in the redressment of Talossa, but still insists that the cold dead hand of the state threatens to throttle "private initiative". He has also registered an account on Instagram. The whole matter revolves around the question of responsibility, as far as I'm concerned. The private citizen bears *no responsibility* for Talossa. Their only duty is to respond to the Census. Aside from that, they can do what they will, and dangerously large numbers appear to be deciding "sod this, I'm watching Netflix". The responsibity for this community rests with HM government alone, and we have all witnessed the result of a live experiment this term as to what happened when that government simply fades away. And as I have said...no one can predict the future. A FreeDem led government may well fall flat on its face. As for me, I don't think.that we have the luxury of failure. Talossa is running out of second chances. We have measured the amplitude of the problem, and ate determined to address it. We can only hope the ModRads catch up.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Nov 22, 2016 14:39:51 GMT -6
My response to this is intermixed with the response I gave to a similar post, which can be found here
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Post by Inxheneu Crova on Nov 22, 2016 15:07:47 GMT -6
If anyone went AWOL, it was HM Loyal Opposition. Most governments would be delighted with the opportunity to pursue their agenda unencumbered. The difficult circumstance the FreeDems found themselves in at the beginning of the Summer are well known. How does this explain the government's meagre record. How does the "most active" party explain why its key Minister is a self-admitted flop, and its Distain still can't explain exactly what it is he did during the last Cabinet? Again, responsibility, and refusing to accept it. I think voters are starting to get the picture at this stage. There is a party, our party, that has taken the measure of the challenge facing the next government, and is trying to find a way out of the malaise. And there are the others, inside a comfortable bubble of self-regard, and who simply simply can't see the problem.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Nov 22, 2016 15:58:54 GMT -6
If anyone went AWOL, it was HM Loyal Opposition. It's no virtue being present if you did nothing. Also, I did not go AWOL. Unlike the shadow-Seneschál, I announced my leave of absence, I didn't disappear off the face of the globe without explanation.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Nov 22, 2016 16:42:33 GMT -6
Oh yeah, the MRPT lost the last election after a period of relative inactivity. Of course the FreeDems won after, well eeh, a period of relative inactivity. There isn't much we can do about the previous election. I mean you can keep rubbing it in our faces if you really feel the urge to do that I guess. But honestly I'm not quite sure what you're talking about when you say we refused to accept responsibility. The MRPT did not have a lot of manpower, which we said during the elections. Still, we took part in government. Yeah, we acknowledged it hasnt been great, with two of our ministers being busy and having other responsibilities in and outside Talossa as well. Still, in the Ziu we punched above our weight and put a bigger mark on Talossa's future than the two larger parties. We could have supported the FreeDems. In that case it would probably the RUMP who would now be calling us out for "refusing to accept responsibility". Or you know, we could have supported neither and forced the FreeDems to deal with the RUMP, which I would not have minded at all, but is that really accepting responsibility?
I mean, it's all very easy to say for a party that campaigned on promises it wasn't going to live up to then disappeared in opposition, failed to represent its voters properly to now come out and declare victory for the opposition, because you know, responsibility...
I do get part of what your saying. I do think its very good you have come up with some ideas about making Talossa active again. And I get that it's sort of irrelevant whether I think they are really going to save Talossa or now, cause at least you're coming up with some ideas. (For the record I think introducing some sort of honours system is a good idea, though there are some details to be fixed. I do hope that regardless of whether you are elected to the government or not, you will still try to introduce these ideas.
And sure, we are too struggling with this. (Thats not to say I think its wrong of us to put energy in reforming our catchment or electoral system, because these things do make Talossa better. Besides that it also creates opportunities for debate, and I know a lot of voters do look for a party based on their ideological position. I know many voters vote FreeDem because they are Republican and many voters vote for the RUMP because they are Monarchist for example. And this is a real debate, so I dont think its wrong of us to discuss this in our manifesto, even if our position hasnt much changed from last year.) The government should come up with ideas to make Talossans more active and the MRPT sure doesn't claim that is has the solution for this issue at this moment.
I do agree with Ian that a lot of the activity has to come from the citizens. Not everything is about politics and a lot of citizens come here for other reasons, like language or heraldry. If we cant get to some level of civic responsibility and everyone would really rather watch netflix, I think we're doomed regardless of who is in government. And I also think we (some parties more than others) risk politicising everything. I could have applied for deputy minister of culture and created the music chart game as a government project and then claim the ministry of culture has been succesful at creating some activity thanks to the MRPT being involved, but the truth is I didnt do it because it was my responsibility, I could have done it without being elected, and I really dont think more people would have participated if it was some party's prestige project (especially those in other parties).
But we do need an active government to stimulate active citizenry, and here is where I really dont buy the argument that - well sure we disappeared for most of the term, to the point where we even forgot to vote and our public forum still is a ghost town, but we have this idea about sending clarks to citizens and we promise to fill non political functions (I dont think the question of how has been answered yet) that arent really up to the government to appoint (you dont have to be elected to the Ziu to fill them either), so vote for us, yay! - and then Id rather vote for a party that got some of its ideas done this term and has now a higher level of activity than 9 months ago, before the elections as well.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Nov 22, 2016 17:55:33 GMT -6
If anyone went AWOL, it was HM Loyal Opposition. How does the "most active" party explain why its key Minister is a self-admitted flop If anyone went AWOL, it was HM Loyal Opposition. It's no virtue being present if you did nothing. *sigh* Granted, it is not everything on my initial list, but I have gotten a fair bit accomplished over this past term; -Significant updates to Talossa.com, and a mechanism for completing the rest of the updates -Reestablished our presence on social media (though I admit not as much as I hoped) -Increased the number of TalossaWiki editors, and created offices where information can be compiled -Began the process of consolidating our CafePress stores to sell TalossaWare, and a poll to know which items should be added Other parts of the government have made progress as well; -ID Cards!!! -Gluc now heads up the NCC and has recruited several TalossAssistants -More donations to charity -The Organic Law Standing Committee, while not officially government-sponsored, is made up mostly (if not solely) of government members, and has already made more progress that the Royal Commission on the Organic Law. I never said I was a "flop," and I hope this was an honest misinterpretation rather than a purposeful misread. Certainly I missed the mark in terms of what I hoped to achieve, but its not like I didn't do anything. The MRPT also got quite a few of its manifesto items passed this term, and did the best job representing our voters. Again, responsibility, and refusing to accept it. The FreeDems don't seem to want to explain to voters why they should be trusted with forming a government as active as they promise despite having been mostly absent last term. Doesn't seem like accepting responsibility to me. Just to be clear, what is it that you say the ModRads don't accept responsibility for? Arrogant rhetoric that is still yet to be backed up with anything substantive. I don't know how you could have read all of my responses to you and still describe me this way, but OK then.
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Post by Inxheneu Crova on Nov 23, 2016 3:13:49 GMT -6
I can claim one great achievement for the FreeDems this term.
In the space of a few days, thanks our relentless scrutiny, the Ministry of STUFF and the Immigration Bureau have suddenly decided to do "things".
Based on this evidence, its all true: the ModRad's lethargy, and thee RUMP's vow of silence, must be all our fault. Imagine what heights these parties will reach when they are sent into opposition!
Admittedly, this flurry of activity appears to consist of filling in web forms and making announcements, but one must start somewhere. Though traditionally one does so at the start of the term, not at its end. And they still haven't explained what Lüc has been doing as Distain all term...
I reiterate my charge-the ModRads are living in a political bubble. Here's why:
Voters won't come to this election handing out points for musty manifesto items ticked off, like so many dessicated counting machines.
They aren't going to give gold stars out for setting up web accounts, when the people doing it have no idea what they might actually use them for (I guess "private iniative", i.e., someone else, will take care of the content?)
Instead, they will ask themselves the question: is Talossa actually worth spending any time on? They won't find the answer in the agitations of this zombie government.
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Post by Inxheneu Crova on Nov 23, 2016 4:11:45 GMT -6
The low down on the FreeDem "disappearance" is this-its been greatly exaggerated.
Miestrâ pretty much single handedly fought a legal battle in the Cort to put a stop to royal overreach-and she won. She battled for the RCOR, and whatever one may think of it, it was an honest and *holistic* attempt to grapple with the issue, instead of assuming everything was fine, with a bit of tweaking.
We can appreciate her exhaustion going into the Summer, and as she's pointed out herself, she did the honest thing and resigned her positions of responsibility when.she needed the break.
CCX is just at the beginning of what promises to be a brilliant extra-Talossan career. He simply hasn't time any more.
Txec dal Nordselvă has also had to take time for personal reasons, and we should respect that. He will be back, of this I'm sure.
But the party has other members too. Dien Tresplet, whos done all Talossa hasasked of him and more, and is ready to lead this country.
Françal Lux, back from a year at university and as rabidly enthusastic about el ghleþ as ever.
Iason Taiwos, who did unappreciated work as Talossaware Czar before being invited to defer to the govts own solution...which never arrived.
Viteu Marcianus, a new member who has been convinced by the need for change in this country.
And, in all modesty, theres me. Even when it was really really difficult to say anything intetesting about this place in the last few months, I've given it a try. I'm not about to give up on Talossa now.
We're ready to *try*. We arent going to make any excuses in advance. We've got to start turning this ship around!
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Nov 23, 2016 5:28:46 GMT -6
I can claim one great achievement for the FreeDems this term. In the space of a few days, thanks our relentless scrutiny, the Ministry of STUFF and the Immigration Bureau have suddenly decided to do "things". This is simply illusory correlation. I happen to be on Thanksgiving break, so I have had a little more time than usual to do "things." I would have done these same things no matter what debate was currently going on. Don't be ridiculous. Also, immigrants come when they come with no regard for elections or level scrutiny applied, so I don't see how your claim about the immigration bureau is valid either
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Nov 23, 2016 6:24:08 GMT -6
Huh? The immigration bureau has been active throughout this term?
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Nov 23, 2016 6:41:00 GMT -6
As I am replying with my phone, the quoting function is maddeningly difficult to use, but I am addressing Inxheneu's latest two posts.
First of all, it is yet another attempt to trivialize the progress of the MRPT in the Ziu. He seems to criticize us for doing what we told the voters we would do.
The FreeDem platform has several policy planks too, none of which were enacted over the past term.
I do in fact know what the purpose of the Instagram account is; promote the goings-on of Talossa, political or non political. As has been well established, I didn't make as much progress on this front as I had intended, but I'm sure you'd agree some is better than none. However, you keep bringing it up as if it were a bad thing. Is some worse than none, or am I ruining the "Ian P is the key MRPT Minister but is still completely inactive" narrative?
As to your list of members, I understand completely that people lack the time or need breaks, and I respect Dama Miestra's actions. I would also love to see Txec, Francal (fellow MMer), and others return to Talossa. It would be great for the country. The absence is not what I am criticizing the FreeDems for.
I am critical of the FreeDems for promising a massive return to activity just as soon as the voters give them a mandate.
Anyway, Glücs response above was excellent and there's really nothing else to say without either repeating him or repeating myself
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Nov 23, 2016 7:46:37 GMT -6
And they still haven't explained what Lüc has been doing as Distain all term... Did the Distainship have a Ministerial portfolio attached all along that I wasn't aware of? Since Cresti never resigned or in any other fashion stepped down from the Seneschalsqab - and as you all know there also was a Chief of Staff doing part of his and my job - what I did was mainly facilitating intra-Cabinet comunication (eg. setting up and moderating a phpBB on talossa.com) and hoping Cresti would fall ill to take his job partly taking care of my own party's legislative agenda.
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Post by Inxheneu Crova on Nov 23, 2016 7:55:25 GMT -6
Well Lüc, from what Ian is saying he could have used the help at STUFF. How come you didn't pitch in and help...or was Cresti supposed to ask you first? ;-)
But thanks for clarifying the situation. You were leader of your party for the last six months. As long as your little boutique is getting along alright...
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