Orders of Knighthood & Chivalry

[Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu]

I wanted to open a discussion about the Orders of Chivalry in the Kingdom and inquire first, as to their limited scope considering the age of the nation and also any movements to expand the ranks of the current orders or creating new ones?

[Ián B. Anglatzarâ]

Jun 23, 2016 8:12:16 GMT -6 Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu said:

I wanted to open a discussion about the Orders of Chivalry in the Kingdom and inquire first, as to their limited scope considering the age of the nation and also any movements to expand the ranks of the current orders or creating new ones?

I want to tag on with a follow-up question for the Free Democrats: Would you work to abolish the orders given the chance?

[Tamoran Montagnhard]

Jun 24, 2016 2:47:18 GMT -6 Ián B. Anglatzarâ said:

Jun 23, 2016 8:12:16 GMT -6 Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu said:

I wanted to open a discussion about the Orders of Chivalry in the Kingdom and inquire first, as to their limited scope considering the age of the nation and also any movements to expand the ranks of the current orders or creating new ones?

I want to tag on with a follow-up question for the Free Democrats: Would you work to abolish the orders given the chance?

When Brazil changed from empire to republic, it was just removed the imperial references on orders. It would make much more sense than abolish.

[Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu]

I wanted to revive this thread... I would love some new input on this

[Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu]

I'll once more bump this up... not only to get discussion, but cause we're back to "dead as door nail" around here again!

[Ian Plätschisch]

Jul 23, 2017 6:37:25 GMT -6 Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu said:

I'll once more bump this up... not only to get discussion, but cause we're back to "dead as door nail" around here again!

As far as I know, although there might be a part of el Lexhatx I am forgetting about, the King alone has say over orders of knighthood.

[Glüc da Dhi]

Yeah, knighthoods would normally be the kings perogative. Of course that doesn't prevent us from handing out different awards and honours and such.

[Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu]

I was meaning more along the lines of a set of National Honours which the King is the Patron but the selection is in the hands of the government/Honours Board/etc.

[Audrada Rôibeardét]

I like that idea but who would be on the Honour Board or whatever?

[Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu]

When a citizen seeks to found an Order, they must petition the King with the name, purpose, cause and principles of the potential Order. With the Sovereign's approval, the Ziu will then take a recommendation of one citizen nominated by King and another by the Founder. With the Ziu's approval, these three become the Honors Board for that Order and will select candidates for membership. Selected candidates must then be approved by the King, as Patron of all the nation's Orders. Once approved, the Order bestows membership on the candidate.

[Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu]

Also, an approved Order must have the College of Arms design Arms for the Order.

[Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h]

Jun 24, 2016 2:47:18 GMT -6 Ián B. Anglatzarâ said:

Jun 23, 2016 8:12:16 GMT -6 Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu said:

I wanted to open a discussion about the Orders of Chivalry in the Kingdom and inquire first, as to their limited scope considering the age of the nation and also any movements to expand the ranks of the current orders or creating new ones?

I want to tag on with a follow-up question for the Free Democrats: Would you work to abolish the orders given the chance?

I cannot speak for the party, but I can speak for myself. I would keep everything, even the silly Royal Talossan Navy (which was an invention of Ben's, as it turns out).

Before June 2004 (and I"m going off memory), we had only one award. It was Për La Naziun and was awarded to those few Talossans whom Ben felt had done such service to the Kingdom the place without their acts would either had not continued to exist or would have existed in a form (to Ben's way of things) lesser than things turned out.

In the 1980s, smelly Vuode Beach (or some place near there) was the scene where Ben cut his foot (I think it was his foot). Josh M. took his shirt off and turned it into a tourniquet and saved Ben's life.

Ca. 1998-2000, Ben awarded same to Tomás G. for becoming the second person in history to become fluent in the Talossan language, thereby making it truly come alive for the first time.

PLN has not always been awarded for the best of reasons. In 2001-ish, Kane Gruber received his for his work in 1998 as PM during the Penguinean 'crisis'. I think Kane would agree it was not the best of 'honours'.

Knighthood went along with the award, and in Tomás' case, entry into the Order of the Purple Tongue.

What did not happen in 'Old Talossa' was the modern obsession with titles and nobility. I can remember Ben only referring to someone as 'Sir [name]' the once.

If I remember correctly, before 2005, all the Kingdom had was PLN and nothing else. The Royal Talossan Navy was during the time I knew Ben (2000-2004) dormant.

It was Greg R. as Regent as well as, I think, Kingdom society in general in the years 2005-2007 who caused the full flowering (for better or worse) of the modern and grand tradition of 'honours and awards'. Titles of nobility flowed like water, and awards of arms (which I heartily approve) became an indelible part of Talossan life.

It was Greg R. who helped to start all of this, but it was John Woolley who cemented it all. His creation of the Order of Cincinnatus (for distinguished service in support of Talossan democracy) was a wonderful idea.

Were I in a position to make or break the Talossan honors system, I would make it. I would retain every award and operate by the maxim that says gifts given cannot be taken back. The same goes for awards. Talossan navy ranks, too.

I would, however, follow John's lead and be very sparse with PLN. There is too much history and gravitas associated with that award to give it out willy-nilly. I would also follow John's lead in being chincy with the Order of Cininnatus.

I would especially be non-giving in new Talossan navy rank-awards (if that is the way that system works). The Royal Talossan Navy plays too much into the wrong reasons to join a micronation: to make one's mark (which was part of why I issued the PD creating the Scribery of Abbavilla back in 2002-2003.

I would be cautious in my awards, and if as a politician I had the power to nix them entirely, I would not do so. Human nature yearns to be recognized. PLN and Cincinnatus serves this purpose nicely.

My fear is people would do Talossa for the awards instead of just to do Talossa.

[Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu]

Hence the reason for a system like the one I described above. It would give the nation lesser awards and titles similar to other Democratic Monarchies in the world today

[Mattximmer]

Jun 24, 2016 2:47:18 GMT -6 Ián B. Anglatzarâ said:

Jun 23, 2016 8:12:16 GMT -6 Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu said:

I wanted to open a discussion about the Orders of Chivalry in the Kingdom and inquire first, as to their limited scope considering the age of the nation and also any movements to expand the ranks of the current orders or creating new ones?

I want to tag on with a follow-up question for the Free Democrats: Would you work to abolish the orders given the chance?

As a wannabe free-dem, here are my thoughts:

Orders are okay.

Creating new "king like" titles is not a good idea.

Examples of "king-like" titles:

Baron
Duke
Lord
etc.

Sir or Dame is okay
whereas the titles that indicate landed nobility are not.

No need to disenfranchise the current titleholders.
I am more interested in keeping title inflation in check, than in being concerned about whether or not there are too many orders.

[Mattximmer]

Many of the micro-state monarchists in other micro-nations are addicted to both orders and titles.

I want to have Talossa be different. More free.

Where we have orders, and even recognize people with titles

AND

we avoid titles that have the musty odor of landed nobility.

Baron Hooligan (Lord Mha la Mha) wears his ducal crown with grace. ("Your Grace", indeed).

I would not want more people to enter that zone: I trust the Baron, however my thinking is that future aspiring nobility would be more likely to fall into the traps of posturing that many other micro-state subjects get sucked into.