Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on Apr 19, 2016 14:13:43 GMT -6
Completely off topic - but I would love to live in a place called "Cámës Gnhác’hkîgnh", 'cos it would confuse everyone greatly!
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Óïn Ursüm
Posts: 1,032
Talossan Since: 3-10-2009
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Post by Óïn Ursüm on Apr 19, 2016 14:40:35 GMT -6
I would say: Cámës Gnhác’hkîgnh. -chd is generally pronounced as though it were -chg. More seriously, why would you use î there? Even from a traditionalist perspective, that's /ɨ/, and I've never seen any indication that Scottish Gaelic has /ɨ/. Also, k is mostly used in Talossan in borrowed words where the original language has k. Since Gaelic never uses k, I would avoid it in the Talossan version too. So, assuming you're correct that the Gaelic word would have /ɲ/ at both ends (the Wikipedia article on Scottish Gaelic orthography is very unclear on the value of word-final slender n), I'd probably go with Gnhác'hchegnh. And using traditionalist orthography, for Camas I'd be tempted to go with Camâs rather than Cámës--it matches the letters of the original better. I'm with Cresti here. While I am occasionally partial to the (very Talossan) tradition of 'eclecticism' in orthography, Epic's proposal is rather overwrought, and does not look Talossan to me.
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Apr 19, 2016 15:18:43 GMT -6
More seriously, why would you use î there? Even from a traditionalist perspective, that's /ɨ/, and I've never seen any indication that Scottish Gaelic has /ɨ/. Also, k is mostly used in Talossan in borrowed words where the original language has k. Since Gaelic never uses k, I would avoid it in the Talossan version too. So, assuming you're correct that the Gaelic word would have /ɲ/ at both ends (the Wikipedia article on Scottish Gaelic orthography is very unclear on the value of word-final slender n), I'd probably go with Gnhác'hchegnh. And using traditionalist orthography, for Camas I'd be tempted to go with Camâs rather than Cámës--it matches the letters of the original better. I'm with Cresti here. While I am occasionally partial to the (very Talossan) tradition of 'eclecticism' in orthography, Epic's proposal is rather overwrought, and does not look Talossan to me. Apart from the fact that I messed up <k> vs. <c>... is it maybe because Camas Neachdain is not Talossan?
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Óïn Ursüm
Posts: 1,032
Talossan Since: 3-10-2009
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Post by Óïn Ursüm on Apr 19, 2016 16:14:33 GMT -6
I'm with Cresti here. While I am occasionally partial to the (very Talossan) tradition of 'eclecticism' in orthography, Epic's proposal is rather overwrought, and does not look Talossan to me. Apart from the fact that I messed up <k> vs. <c>... is it maybe because Camas Neachdain is not Talossan? I dunno, Cresti's Gnhác'hchegnh looks perfectly Talossan to me. I'd argue that we should not force the Talossan orthography into a narrow transcription of the language of origin, but instead transcribe foreign place names according to a hypothetical Talossan-speaker's practised attempt at pronouncing them.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Apr 25, 2016 15:05:39 GMT -6
Camas Neachdain sounds/looks kinda right to me based on the Gaelic argument.
It looks like the kind of thing I'd read on Gaelic signposts or hear on the "The next stop is Wishaw ... Camas Neachdain" on the train announcement thing over here.
Something like this, in Gaelic, would be pronounced something along the lines of Kaa-Mass Neekh-Dane (with the Neekh having a wet sounding, throat rolling kh) .. correct? How would that sound in Talossan. I don't think Talossan has the Scottish wet throat roll sound even if the word is influenced by Gaelic or Scots language, hm?
You know the sound I mean .. as in It's a braw, bricht, moonlicht nicht ... the ch has a weird deep, slobbery gargle going on in the throat in the middle of the word.
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Apr 25, 2016 16:53:31 GMT -6
Camas Neachdain sounds/looks kinda right to me based on the Gaelic argument. It looks like the kind of thing I'd read on Gaelic signposts or hear on the "The next stop is Wishaw ... Camas Neachdain" on the train announcement thing over here. Something like this, in Gaelic, would be pronounced something along the lines of Kaa-Mass Neekh-Dane (with the Neekh having a wet sounding, throat rolling kh) .. correct? How would that sound in Talossan. I don't think Talossan has the Scottish wet throat roll sound even if the word is influenced by Gaelic or Scots language, hm? You know the sound I mean .. as in It's a braw, bricht, moonlicht nicht ... the ch has a weird deep, slobbery gargle going on in the throat in the middle of the word. I suppose you mean the /x/, which is also present in Talossan/Scottish-Gaelic Glasc’hù? If so, yes, Talossan has that. If you mean /ç/, which in Talossan, as well as German, Greek, and Scottish-Gaelic, is the counterpart to /x/ in environments with front vowels (e, i, ü, ö, etc.), then, yes, Talossan has that, as well. As for the pronunciation of Camas Neachdain in Scottish-Gaelic, I explained this earlier, it will be pronounced approximately thus: KAH-mus NYAKH-ken. No, the k there is no mistake, Scottish-Gaelic “-chd-” is (almost) always pronounced as though written “-chg-”. EDIT: There is a tiny possibility (albeit unusual) for the first vowel in Neachdain to be an “eh”, although I would rather expect this to be written Nèachdain. The possibility is quite small, but it is still there.
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