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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Mar 31, 2016 3:09:48 GMT -6
The first sentence of the new section strikes me as a little overbroad. It sounds like we'd be encouraging citizens to criticize all public or political figures just for the sake of being critical. I see what you mean. What change would you propose (possibly without making the sentence too dense in information)?
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Mar 31, 2016 4:53:03 GMT -6
I see what you mean. What change would you propose (possibly without making the sentence too dense in information)? Hmm. Maybe something as simple as changing "criticism" to "just criticism"?
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Mar 31, 2016 5:00:06 GMT -6
Which gives rise to the question: what constitutes just criticism? I think that adding “just criticism” makes the law more restrictive than we want it to be, maybe even dangerously so?
The question we need to ask ourselves, then, would be:
Is it worse to encourage Talossans to criticise a public, or political, figure for the sake of criticism, and what disadvantages could arise?, or Is it worse to narrow the (proposed/encouraged) right to criticism down to “just criticism”, and what disadvantages could arise?
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Mar 31, 2016 9:11:48 GMT -6
What about "honest criticism"?
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Mar 31, 2016 10:45:52 GMT -6
"Honest" is still subjective. I think that we should leave it to the first covenant to protect this freedom, rather than introduce a duplicate provision
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Mar 31, 2016 14:47:39 GMT -6
What about this for the first sentence?: It is a bit denser than I'd like, but I think there is no complete elegant solution here. What do you opine?
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Mar 31, 2016 15:56:58 GMT -6
What about this for the first sentence?: It is a bit denser than I'd like, but I think there is no complete elegant solution here. What do you opine? If I may (and I know I am being repetitive), the elegant solution would be to not introduce legislation protecting rights that are already protected.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Apr 2, 2016 11:59:46 GMT -6
Which gives rise to the question: what constitutes just criticism? I think that adding “just criticism” makes the law more restrictive than we want it to be, maybe even dangerously so? My thinking is that we don't want to encourage unjust criticism, even if it must be left to the conscience of each citizen to decide for themselves when criticism is just and when it isn't. It's like Wheaton's Law. People can disagree about when criticism is deserved, and people have a right to make that decision for themselves, but if you recognise that criticism is undeserved, you shouldn't be taking part in it. Or at least, the nation shouldn't be encouraging you to do it.
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Post by Chirbi Scherpa-Carriedo on Apr 7, 2016 17:38:06 GMT -6
Ok, this convinced me. You have my support and I would even ask you to allow me to co-sponsor. Done! Please check that I've written everything correctly! Anyone else want to co-sponsor? I would also like to co-sponsor this bill. *gives a high five to both Sen. da Lhiun and Dr. dal Nordselva*
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Apr 14, 2016 12:42:14 GMT -6
Version changed according to my proposal above. Senator Eðo Grischun You’ve been added as co-sponsor. Sorry for my late action; I did not see your request before! I do not know why I thought S:reu Carriedo to be S:reu Grischun. Something is wrong with me... Chirbi Scherpa-Carriedo , *you*’ve been added as sponsor. Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă , and S:reu Carriedo, do you have any objections to me using the acronym FDT? It fit so nicely in there. WHEREAS the Boss from Bosporus, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, is one of the most annoying, despicable, and ridiculous political figures of our time, and WHEREAS the Boss from Bosporus has done many an illegal thing, one of which was to build a Presidential Palace with 1000 rooms with a converted value of roughly 203 million Louise (~305 million USD) in a nature reserve, and WHEREAS the Boss from Bosporus has defied orders from Turkey's courts, including the highest court, forbidding him to continue building his Presidential Palace, and WHEREAS recently, the Boss from Bosporus has, with disesteem to diplomatic decorum, summoned the German ambassador to Turkey to appear before the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs due to a satirical video published in Germany criticising his person, and WHEREAS apparently criticism of his person seems to make the Madman from Bosporus even madder, and WHEREAS democracy is something he wants to do away with, and WHEREAS we never want political satire to be something journalists could get incarcerated for in Talossa, now THEREFORE resolve the Ziu to add following new section 35 to Title F. Culture of the Organic Law, after section 34: The subsequent sections in Title F shall be renumbered accordingly to fit this new section in. FURTHERMORE the Ziu condemns the erratic actions of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, and reminds him, and the People of the Republic of Turkey, of the importance of democracy, freedom of speech, and rule of law. Urameux q’estadra så, – Magniloqueu Épiqeu Ac’hlerglünä da Lhiun (Senator-MRPT to Maritiimi-Maxhestic) – D:r Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq. (MC-FreeDems) – Chirbi Scherpa-Carriedo (MC-FreeDems)
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Apr 14, 2016 13:33:14 GMT -6
It is FreeDems.
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Post by Munditenens Tresplet on May 2, 2016 14:37:15 GMT -6
Was this supposed to amend Title F of Organic Law?
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on May 2, 2016 16:21:57 GMT -6
Was this supposed to amend Title F of Organic Law? There is no Title F in Organic Law. Only Lexhatx has titles. OrgLaw has Articles.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on May 2, 2016 16:32:37 GMT -6
I see what you were asking, though. Sadly, the bill is already in the Clark so it can't be edited.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on May 2, 2016 16:39:32 GMT -6
I see what you were asking, though. Sadly, the bill is already in the Clark so it can't be edited. The error can be fixed if it is classified as a formatting error under Lex.C.1.2.3
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