Royal Gazette, 24 February 2016/xxxvi

[Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H.]

The Palace, Centennial in Colorado

24 February 2016/xxxvii

THE KING has directed that the appointment of Iustì Carlüs Canun, to be a Member of the Most Noble Order of the Purple Tongue, dated 6 August 2011, be cancelled and annulled and that his name be erased from the Register of the said Order.

Done under the Seal of the of the Chancery, by Marti-Pair Furxheir, Secretary of State, on order from King John I

[Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H.]

My signature was modified to remove the attack at the King.

Now that this issue is solved, I would like to apologize to all citizens of Talossa, and the King in particular, for my anger.

Perhaps, all that was needed was time for the King to think. Just because I cannot see what there is to think about, doesn't mean it wasn't a hard issue to ponder, after all, I am not the King and he is.

Now that this is behind me, I will focus on healing from this, and on finishing the election.

But that's me talking about me. Others might have other objections, and that's your choice.

I will still help with finding the person trying to discredit Talossans to their employers.

[Alèx Soleighlfred]

I'm glad to see this issue solved. It was a headache.

[Üc R. Tärfâ]

I'm glad. It took way too long but now it's over.

Let's focus on the citizenship now.

[Eðo Grischun]

Feb 25, 2016 14:00:58 GMT -6 Üc R. Tärfâ said:

I'm glad. It took way too long but now it's over.

Let's focus on the citizenship now.

That's going to be more tricky.

Honours. Everybody agreed.

You are going to find a much more divided opinion on citizenship.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

I am going to go out on a horrible limb, and I expect a LOT of abuse from people for this, but I do not think we should grant any Government, or official body, the right to strip citizens of their citizenship, horrendous as their crimes may be.

I could see the King declaring a person, upon deliberation of the Ziu, under very specific, and restrictive circumstances to a persona non grāta, but that would merely be a symbolic act, maybe like a shunning, which would not have bearing on the person’s Organic rights, and citizenship.
It may probably mean that he or she would not be eligible to petition for a Grant of Citizenship, or hold any public office (for lack of good standing), but it would largely serve as a means for Talossa to publicly “distance herself” from that person.

[Eðo Grischun]

Feb 25, 2016 15:30:56 GMT -6 Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun said:

I am going to go out on a horrible limb, and I expect a LOT of abuse from people for this, but I do not think we should grant any Government, or official body, the right to strip citizens of their citizenship, horrendous as their crimes may be.

I could see the King declaring a person, upon deliberation of the Ziu, under very specific, and restrictive circumstances to a persona non grāta, but that would merely be a symbolic act, maybe like a shunning, which would not have bearing on the person’s Organic rights, and citizenship.
It may probably mean that he or she would not be eligible to petition for a Grant of Citizenship, or hold any public office (for lack of good standing), but it would largely serve as a means for Talossa to publicly “distance herself” from that person.

I'd be careful in straying too far from the angry mob. You're at risk of getting named as a _______ apologist or _________ sympathiser.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Feb 25, 2016 15:40:10 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

Feb 25, 2016 15:30:56 GMT -6 Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun said:

I am going to go out on a horrible limb, and I expect a LOT of abuse from people for this, but I do not think we should grant any Government, or official body, the right to strip citizens of their citizenship, horrendous as their crimes may be.

I could see the King declaring a person, upon deliberation of the Ziu, under very specific, and restrictive circumstances to a persona non grāta, but that would merely be a symbolic act, maybe like a shunning, which would not have bearing on the person’s Organic rights, and citizenship.
It may probably mean that he or she would not be eligible to petition for a Grant of Citizenship, or hold any public office (for lack of good standing), but it would largely serve as a means for Talossa to publicly “distance herself” from that person.

I'd be careful in straying too far from the angry mob. You're at risk of getting named as a _______ apologist or _________ sympathiser.

You know, if it will protect our democracy, and us from a step in the direction of dictatorship, then I will gladly endure that kind of abuse — not because it applies to me, but because I could not look at myself in the mirror, if I were to throw my beliefs and morals overboard to save my own hide.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

I don't think there's any angry mob, now. We were all freaked out, and rightly so, and I am proud of how we're now coming together as a nation to address this and work to make sure it never happens again.

[Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H.]

I would like to say that what irritated me the most Monday wasn't Iusti's citizenship, it was that he was keeping his honors.

Do not expect an angry mob from me on the debate for his citizenship, unless someone blatentely minimizes pedophilia (which no one did so far).

[Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H.]

Feb 25, 2016 15:30:56 GMT -6 Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun said:

I am going to go out on a horrible limb, and I expect a LOT of abuse from people for this, but I do not think we should grant any Government, or official body, the right to strip citizens of their citizenship, horrendous as their crimes may be.

I could see the King declaring a person, upon deliberation of the Ziu, under very specific, and restrictive circumstances to a persona non grāta, but that would merely be a symbolic act, maybe like a shunning, which would not have bearing on the person’s Organic rights, and citizenship.
It may probably mean that he or she would not be eligible to petition for a Grant of Citizenship, or hold any public office (for lack of good standing), but it would largely serve as a means for Talossa to publicly “distance herself” from that person.

When you say official body, do you include the Cort? If you think the Cort shouldn't make a ruling in such as case, that could trigger some negativity.

Personally, I don't see much problems with Iusti's citizenship: he last voted in the 47th Cosa.

This means that after the next election, the 50th, which will occur close to October, he will lose his citizenship.

Now that he is back to an ordinary citizen, there is less hurry in my on personal opinion.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Feb 25, 2016 17:35:49 GMT -6 Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. said:

Feb 25, 2016 15:30:56 GMT -6 Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun said:

I am going to go out on a horrible limb, and I expect a LOT of abuse from people for this, but I do not think we should grant any Government, or official body, the right to strip citizens of their citizenship, horrendous as their crimes may be.

I could see the King declaring a person, upon deliberation of the Ziu, under very specific, and restrictive circumstances to a persona non grāta, but that would merely be a symbolic act, maybe like a shunning, which would not have bearing on the person’s Organic rights, and citizenship.
It may probably mean that he or she would not be eligible to petition for a Grant of Citizenship, or hold any public office (for lack of good standing), but it would largely serve as a means for Talossa to publicly “distance herself” from that person.

When you say official body, do you include the Cort? If you think the Cort shouldn't make a ruling in such as case, that could trigger some negativity.

Personally, I don't see much problems with Iusti's citizenship: he last voted in the 47th Cosa.

This means that after the next election, the 50th, which will occur close to October, he will lose his citizenship.

Now that he is back to an ordinary citizen, there is less hurry in my on personal opinion.

No, because it would not be a verdict. It would just be an opinion voiced by the state — a “Sense of the Ziu”, if you so will.

[Owen Edwards]

That'd functionally be a writ of attainder. Punishments administered by the state should not occur legislatively or executively (Iusti losing his honours isn't a "punishment" in the sense we're talking about); they're a judicial matter.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Yes, which is why I think it's morally lax to suggest that we just "let Cannon strike out". I want to pass a law by which he can be legally kicked out for making Talossa unsafe for the rest of us; then bring a case under that law and see what the UC says.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Feb 25, 2016 19:37:52 GMT -6 Owen Edwards said:

That'd functionally be a writ of attainder. Punishments administered by the state should not occur legislatively or executively (Iusti losing his honours isn't a "punishment" in the sense we're talking about); they're a judicial matter.

I do not think it would be a writ of attainder. It would merely be a sense of the Ziu, since the declaration would not ACTUALLY restrict affected citizens from doing anything in Talossa.

Note that, for example, in many countries, people who have prior convictions will be administratively barred from holding public offices for want of good standing, because these administrative, judicial, legislative branches could not in good conscience allow such people to be associated with their work.

Of course the affected citizen would have a recourse to the courts, where the courts would determine whether the shunning was, in fact, warranted.

If people felt strongly about it, we could also involve the Courts, but since we only have one layer of Cort, I wanted to keep the Justices as impartial as possible for any appeals.