48th Cosa, 1st Clark Discussion

[Pôl d'Aurìbuérg]

Let's get the ball rolling!

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

With your leave to speak, Mençéi d'Aurìbuérg, I wish to address my fellow Senators to look at 48RZ2. (A link to the current Clark: www.talossa.ca/files/clark.php?cosa=48&clark=1 )

What are your thoughts on this? I believe that this may be a good way to grant to the people the power they are due — and their word should be the last word. Otherwise it feels as though the Ziu were playing with us, wouldn't you say?
"Here, have a referendum. Oh, wait a minute, nooo... I think I'll not enact this amendment. Yeah... But thanks for voting on it, anyway!"

Furthermore, I'd like to state that 48RZ4 is a very nice bill, and it has my support.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

I'm voting PËR on everything on this clark.

[Eðo Grischun]

voting per on everything except the measurements act.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Senator Eðo Grischun, any particular reason as to why you oppose the Measurements Act?

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

If fellow Senators could read this post by Sir Davinescu, who seems to have some reservations about the Automatic Vote Validation bill. I am leaning towards a non, not because of what the bill tries to do, but because of the flaws he points out. Also, I do not understand why Senate and Cosa votes were included in this bill, as they are public, and not private. They also need thus not be validated.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

I would refer my colleague from M-M to Schivâ´s first rule of Talossan politics: "AD never proposes anything except if it's to his personal benefit or to that of the RUMP". I would suggest that they want to drag out the validation of the secret ballot as long as possible, in the hope that citizens will get bored and go back to the public ballot and thus the dominance of the RUMP loyalty parade in elections.

Personally, I've never seen any need for "validation" of automatically gathered secret-ballot votes. All that needs doing, for heavens' sake, is for the vote-counting system itself to be validated, not every single vote! This is nothing but RUMP fear and distrust of a voting system they can't control. If my colleague from M-M allows himself to be sucked back into their sophistry, we'll be back to do-nothing government of an unaccountable clique of bro's before you know it.

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Senator Schivâ, as much as I respect you, may I remind you that I *really, really, really* don't give a damn about who hates whom, and who is trying to do what to whom, and who does what for their personal benefit, here? All I care about is this amendment. And while, as I said, I agree that automatically cast votes need not be validated, I disagree with the wording, and the amendment seeks to introduce a subsection 1 into the Organic Law.

Here is the thing: we don't have subsections in the Organic Law! *gasp*

So with all due respect and cordial good-will, can you please tone it down a notch, and comment on the issue at hand? That would be very helpful!

[Sevastáin Pinátsch]

It would be lovely if people noticed showstoppers while bills were still in The Hopper.

[Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù]

Jul 12, 2015 4:57:58 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

voting per on everything except the measurements act.

would the honorable senator please clarify which act this is (I can't seem to find it :S)

[Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù]

Jul 15, 2015 6:31:53 GMT -6 Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun said:

Senator Schivâ, as much as I respect you, may I remind you that I *really, really, really* don't give a damn about who hates whom, and who is trying to do what to whom, and who does what for their personal benefit, here? All I care about is this amendment. And while, as I said, I agree that automatically cast votes need not be validated, I disagree with the wording, and the amendment seeks to introduce a subsection 1 into the Organic Law.

Here is the thing: we don't have subsections in the Organic Law! *gasp*

So with all due respect and cordial good-will, can you please tone it down a notch, and comment on the issue at hand? That would be very helpful!

I agree, with all due respect Senator Schivâ, you do make it very public that you hate Mr Davinsecu, but he is not in this chamber, could you kindly leave your ire at the door for a while walst we discuss this properly?

[Munditenens Tresplet]

My position on 48RZ1 is the exact same position I had regarding the Mega-constitutional Amendments of the last Clark of the 47th Cosa. I do not believe we should be coding this level of intricate detail into Organic Law, as this sort of thing would be better off in statutory law. Of course, as to what 48RZ1 seeks to accomplish, I am in support. We should not have votes revealed to anyone without the consent of the voter in a country as small as ours, or in any country for that matter. Therefore, I will likely be abstaining on this bill.

However, my concern regarding 48RZ1 is not why several colleagues of mine have spoken against it. The addition of a subsection in Organic Law does seem odd and out of place, and is certainly a valid reason to harbor hesitation regarding this bill. That being said, we already have bullet points--ugly, unsightly bullet points--in at least two places in our unnecessarily bulky Organic Law. I've spoken out against bullet points, and I will likewise speak against adding subsections, but these problems do not stem from the improper formatting of the authors of these types of amendments. The problems stem from this shared idea that Organic Law is a document that we need to amend half a dozen times every six months. The problems stem from the idea that Organic Law is just another code of laws, like El Lexhatx, and that we should include in it this level of detail:

Upon filing an application, the party is "filed" or "pre-registered" and can be printed on the Ballot as one of the choices, regardless of status of payment.

At this moment or at any point before Ballot day, the leader of the party may also submit to the Chancery the following documentation for possible display on the ballot:

• The URL of a party platform
• A candidate list for seats

Instead of nitpicking about the proper formatting of an amendment, if one truly is concerned about the never ending pile of amendments that are put on the ballot every year only to be rubber stamped by the voters, we need to take a step back, look at each amendment that is offered during this Cosa, and ask ourselves, "Does this need to be in our constitution?"

And on a lighter note, I will be voting against 48RZ4, as I believe the Kingdom should remain on the same system of measurements that the City of Milwaukee uses. It does beg the question, though, do we currently use the English system, the Imperial system (which replaced the English system), or the US Customary system, which is slightly different from the Imperial system? And before you ask, yes, I used Wikipedia.