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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jul 17, 2014 7:39:20 GMT -6
I am so sorry that you have a Senator who clearly doesn't read the bills that are Clarked. I hope to god that one of you is able to defeat him in the next election, because he is exactly the reason why we need more political competition in Talossa.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 17, 2014 8:01:18 GMT -6
My condolences that you have people from other Provinces thinking that they can give you advice. I would think they would stay in their own Province, and be concerned about what happens there.
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jul 17, 2014 8:05:36 GMT -6
The actions of a Senator impact all of us, and I'm aware that the vast majority of active Ataturkeys get rather annoyed with their Senator. Sorry, does freedom of speech not apply outside of your own province?
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Post by Sevastáin Pinátsch on Jul 17, 2014 9:24:08 GMT -6
Maricopa has been very welcoming to me when I commented on their senator *and* hosted a Barry Manilow festival. They're wonderful, tolerant people -- a model to follow.
It's good to know that others are aware of what's happening (and not happening) here.
I welcome all commentary from visitors, whether criticisms or commendations.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 17, 2014 10:29:12 GMT -6
The actions of a Senator impact all of us, and I'm aware that the vast majority of active Ataturkeys get rather annoyed with their Senator. Sorry, does freedom of speech not apply outside of your own province? Perhaps your advice here is because the actions of their Senator voting against your Bills, and that impact is what brought these unsolicited comments? Would you me ok if I went to Fiova and actively campaigned against you and your political party? I find it rather rude, myself. If the Atatrkeys don't like their Senator, they don't need outsiders to tell them that.
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jul 17, 2014 13:48:01 GMT -6
The actions of a Senator impact all of us, and I'm aware that the vast majority of active Ataturkeys get rather annoyed with their Senator. Sorry, does freedom of speech not apply outside of your own province? Perhaps your advice here is because the actions of their Senator voting against your Bills, and that impact is what brought these unsolicited comments? Would you me ok if I went to Fiova and actively campaigned against you and your political party? I find it rather rude, myself. If the Atatrkeys don't like their Senator, they don't need outsiders to tell them that. If my Senator was an absentee who by their comments betrayed a lack of understanding concerning the bills, then I wouldn't find it rude at all. Interesting you would turn this into a party political thing though. I don't believe I mentioned anyone's party, and further I thought Senators represented provinces and not people. Why is it you find this to be such a problem, but prominent Ataturkeys like SP do not? Surely you can see the irony of telling Ataturkeys what they should object to?
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 17, 2014 13:58:44 GMT -6
Perhaps your advice here is because the actions of their Senator voting against your Bills, and that impact is what brought these unsolicited comments? Would you me ok if I went to Fiova and actively campaigned against you and your political party? I find it rather rude, myself. If the Atatrkeys don't like their Senator, they don't need outsiders to tell them that. If my Senator was an absentee who by their comments betrayed a lack of understanding concerning the bills, then I wouldn't find it rude at all. Interesting you would turn this into a party political thing though. I don't believe I mentioned anyone's party, and further I thought Senators represented provinces and not people. Why is it you find this to be such a problem, but prominent Ataturkeys like SP do not? Surely you can see the irony of telling Ataturkeys what they should object to? So, why did you wait until AFTER Senator Holmes submitted his votes? What makes you think that he doesn't understand the bills? Not every Senator (or most MC's, for that matter) explain why they voted a certain way. Unless you are privy to my emails to Senator Holmes, or the RUMP Party emails, then I do not believe you are correct in your inaccurate assumption. I mentioned political parties because that is how you have the privilege of voting in the Cosa. If I actively campaigned against you and your Political Party in your home Province , it would be just as rude as your discussing the actions of Senator in a Province outside of yours. BTW- Senator Holmes has explained why his time on the Internet is limited. Are you objecting to that?
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jul 17, 2014 16:25:46 GMT -6
If my Senator was an absentee who by their comments betrayed a lack of understanding concerning the bills, then I wouldn't find it rude at all. Interesting you would turn this into a party political thing though. I don't believe I mentioned anyone's party, and further I thought Senators represented provinces and not people. Why is it you find this to be such a problem, but prominent Ataturkeys like SP do not? Surely you can see the irony of telling Ataturkeys what they should object to? So, why did you wait until AFTER Senator Holmes submitted his votes? What makes you think that he doesn't understand the bills? Not every Senator (or most MC's, for that matter) explain why they voted a certain way. Unless you are privy to my emails to Senator Holmes, or the RUMP Party emails, then I do not believe you are correct in your inaccurate assumption. I mentioned political parties because that is how you have the privilege of voting in the Cosa. If I actively campaigned against you and your Political Party in your home Province , it would be just as rude as your discussing the actions of Senator in a Province outside of yours. BTW- Senator Holmes has explained why his time on the Internet is limited. Are you objecting to that? I think one line in particular summarises my objection. A few Senators have opposed RZ28, and I won't hold that against them. It is clear however from this passage: that Senator Holmes objection does not follow from an understanding of what the bill is actually about, calling into question the amount of attention to detail that he actually affords the rest of the bills. I may not be correct in any inaccurate assumption here, but I think it's certainly likely that I'm correct in my accurate one. It's a shame that Senator Holmes' time on the internet is limited, but frankly that's not my problem. My concern is with the impact this has on Talossa. I seem to remember some of his opponents from the last Senatorial race here being concerned with the amount of time he has previously been able to give to his Senatorial duties. Whilst it would be better for everyone if Senator Holmes could be more active, if he really can't be (through no fault of his own), I feel for the people of Ataturk who have stood against him, who are active, who are competent, but are defeated by the absent majority. I'll conclude with a satirical point regarding which shouldn't be taken at all seriously as to how apt it is that the absentee Senator wins on the votes of a largely absentee population (though others voted for him too, I know!)
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 17, 2014 17:30:44 GMT -6
Just one last comment, and we can leave it at that.
Senator Holmes is quite the ardent Monarchist. He always has been, and I daresay he always will be. Contrary to what you may read into the wording of his comment, he knows exactly what the Bill was about. He is against any changes from the Kingdom being anything but a ...Kingdom. He doesn't feel the need to poll the Citizens about this, because to him it will always be the Kingdom. He, like myself, will resign our citizenship if it ever changes from being a Kingdom.
Again, I communicate with him via email, he is on the RUMP email list where we discuss Bills, and how we are going to vote. He does comment on the mailing lists, and he asks me for any pertinent information during the Month. Last month he was absent because his other duties did not allow him time to get to the internet ( for private use).
So, I must again state that you are not correct in your assumptions, and are mistaken in your belief.
Thanks!
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jul 17, 2014 17:44:56 GMT -6
No, thank you. I'm glad we've finally had some clarity as to the position of both Senator Holmes and RUMP when it comes to the value of the opinions of others. He is a monarchist, but he doesn't exclusively represent them, and neither does the bill suppose that we should be a republic OR a monarchy - being a monarchist shouldn't stop you from supporting that bill.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 17, 2014 17:57:51 GMT -6
No, thank you. I'm glad we've finally had some clarity as to the position of both Senator Holmes and RUMP when it comes to the value of the opinions of others. He is a monarchist, but he doesn't exclusively represent them, and neither does the bill suppose that we should be a republic OR a monarchy - being a monarchist shouldn't stop you from supporting that bill. Again, a need for a correction. I stated that Senator Holmes and I hold a position concerning the future of the Kingdom. I did not say that the whole of the RUMP party hold that same position. The RUMP does not require it's members, MC's, or Senators to have the exact same opinion. If you look back through the Clarks of the last decade, you will see that often RUMP members of the Ziu are on opposite sides of the issue, and vote that way. So, your "clarity" is still a bit cloudy. Please, if you have questions on Senator Holmes stances on issues, contact him directly. Do not presume you know how he feels about an issue, without directly discussing the sentiments with him.
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jul 17, 2014 18:07:26 GMT -6
Really? You too? People holding different positions concerning the future of the Kingdom is exactly why the bill was written. You think it should stay a monarchy? Great, so you vote that way in the referendum.
We're getting bogged down in this one example anyway; the concern that the Senator wasn't active enough was something that was raised in the last election. I was simply offering my condolences given that nothing has apparently changed there. I don't think we need to continue this discussion as you simultaneously claim to speak for Senator Holmes in reference to both his and RUMP decisions as well as claiming that Senator Holmes does not follow the party line. Serious suggestion, if there are no ideological bindings in your party why should anyone vote for you over the Workers' Party? Like I said, I don't think any further discussion would be productive.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 17, 2014 18:14:06 GMT -6
if there are no ideological bindings in your party why should anyone vote for you over the Workers' Party? Because we allow our members to have Freedom of Thought. We allow open discussion of issues, and don't demand the the members kowtow to the Party Line. There is a difference between me replying to your false accusations, and you talking to Senator Holmes before posting inaccurate comments.
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jul 17, 2014 18:25:19 GMT -6
Oh, I'm glad your party shares in one of the many freedoms that are available to members of our other parties as well. My point was that you make conflicting claims about the RUMP party line and the Senator's freedom. It went over your head, that's fine.
I think I'm about done here. Oh wait no, I need to correct you on one of your false accusations... I didn't make any false accusations. I don't believe Senator Holmes understood that bill, and it raises questions in my mind with regards to his understanding of the others. Further, he showed no desire to communicate with his constituents prior to voting, nor has he been around all that much to discuss the laws which he has a very powerful say over. I'm sure the good Senator, as a politician (a job in which you should expect there to be a great deal of public scrutiny) in the Kingdom of Talossa is more than capable of dealing with such criticisms himself and in a grown up fashion. Thank you for your take on the situation, but it's wholly unnecessary. I'm confident that the people to whom I expressed my condolences are already aware of the problems - that's why I said it, and that's why I'm sure they don't need you to defend their own Senator.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 17, 2014 18:59:22 GMT -6
I don't believe Senator Holmes understood that bill, And again, you are mistaken. No matter how many times you repeat it, it's not true. You can make up all the false information you want - but I sincerely doubt the Ataturkeys are that gullible.
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