Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063 
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Nov 24, 2013 10:01:00 GMT -6
 The Office of the Prime Minister of Talossa
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L'Óifisch dal Seneschal del Regipäts Talossa
The Admiral is Back Prime Dictate(APCRMN) sometime ago, our esteemed Admiral Tim Asmourescu renounced his citizenship, and; WHEREAS there is uncertainty as to whether the said renunciation was ever officially recognized, and; WHEREAS Tim has asked to rejoin his countrymen,; THEREFORE,; Tim Asmourescu is hereby officially restored to citizenship with all the rights and responsibilities pertaining to it and his official date of immigration, which shall be determined by the Secretary of State, shall be recognized. The Secretary of State is hereby directed to restore citizen Asmourescu to the rolls. Done under my hand and seal, as from Kenwood House, this day the 24th day of November, in the Year of Our Lord 2013, of the independence of Talossa the thirty-fourth, and the seventh in the reign of our gracious Sovereign John. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselva, MC
Seneschal |
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Nov 24, 2013 12:04:25 GMT -6
YES! HURRAH!
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Nov 24, 2013 15:06:25 GMT -6
WHEREAS Tim has asked to rejoin his countrymen,; Oh, really? I must have missed that... |
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Nov 24, 2013 15:23:15 GMT -6
WHEREAS Tim has asked to rejoin his countrymen,; Oh, really? I must have missed that... Luc, just because it didn't happen publicly, doesn't mean it didn't happen.  |
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Nov 24, 2013 15:28:01 GMT -6
Oh, really? I must have missed that... Luc, just because it didn't happen publicly, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Ok, but when ESB decided to come back one year ago he passed through the whole immigration process. Didn't know you could skip it. |
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Nov 24, 2013 18:35:58 GMT -6
Unfortunately, that's a good point... the Seneschal's extraordinary power to grant citizenship was revoked by Umpteen-and-One (http://wiki.talossa.com/The_Umpteen-and-One_is_Too_Many_Act). However, the Admiral's renunciation was never acknowledged under seal of the Chancery, by the SoS (at least as far as I can find)! This means that, technically, he never lost his citizenship.
I don't know about the legality of this PD, because we're in a weird legal grey area, here. The Admiral's citizenship appears to have been informally recognized, but legally hanging in limbo. The Seneschal does not technically have the power to re-admit him, because the power to bypass immigration procedures is granted to the Ziu in the OrgLaw, nor could the Seneschal order the SoS to not recognize the renunciation... hm... WEIRD!
The Admiral should probably just say, "I revoke my renunciation" at some point, publicly, which will make it invalid and moot (since it was never recognized) and that would settle the whole thing. If other action is needed, it's the Ziu that would need to do it.
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Nov 25, 2013 3:34:46 GMT -6
Unfortunately, that's a good point... the Seneschal's extraordinary power to grant citizenship was revoked by Umpteen-and-One (http://wiki.talossa.com/The_Umpteen-and-One_is_Too_Many_Act). However, the Admiral's renunciation was never acknowledged under seal of the Chancery, by the SoS (at least as far as I can find)! This means that, technically, he never lost his citizenship. I don't know about the legality of this PD, because we're in a weird legal grey area, here. The Admiral's citizenship appears to have been informally recognized, but legally hanging in limbo. The Seneschal does not technically have the power to re-admit him, because the power to bypass immigration procedures is granted to the Ziu in the OrgLaw, nor could the Seneschal order the SoS to not recognize the renunciation... hm... WEIRD! The Admiral should probably just say, "I revoke my renunciation" at some point, publicly, which will make it invalid and moot (since it was never recognized) and that would settle the whole thing. If other action is needed, it's the Ziu that would need to do it. I'm all for Tim being back again--I was sad to see him leave--but this really needs a fix badly. It shouldn't be possible to leave a renunciation hanging unrecognised indefinitely. If it's not recognised by the SoS within a week or so, it should take force automatically. |
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Post by D. N. Vercáriâ on Nov 25, 2013 5:06:01 GMT -6
Quite unrelatedly, wouldn't it be a bit monty-pythonesque if anybody had the power to reject a renunciation? A la "I renounce!"- "No you don't."- "Yes I do!"- "Not at all!" etc etc...
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Nov 25, 2013 15:12:43 GMT -6
Yeah, it's a weird loophole. A simple legislative fix, adding your suggested thing, would make sense. "If the renunciation is not recognized by the Secretary of State, then it takes effect within exactly one week of its public appearance."
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Post by Martì Prevuost on Nov 30, 2013 8:56:49 GMT -6
Let me ask this ... IF the Admiral's renunciation was never formally accepted as is stated in this thread, then
1. Why is this thread necessary?
2. Why was the Admiral's profile disabled on Witt?
3. Why was the Admiral's name removed from the Witt member list?
4. Why does the Admiral's entry on TalossaWiki list his renunciation?
5. Why was the Admiral's seat on the Uppermost Cort listed as vacant and by what authority was he removed?
6. Why and how was he replaced as Maestro of Benito?
7. Why and how was he replaced as AG?
mag
PS: Welcome back, Tim
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Nov 30, 2013 15:51:00 GMT -6
1. Like it says, I think it was trying to eliminate any doubt that might exist, for everyone's peace of mind.
2. Wittenberg is privately administered.
3. Again, not a governmental decision.
4. Individual wiki edits may not perfectly reflect reality. In this case, Litz (along with most everyone) just didn't notice the renunciation wasn't accepted under seal when she added that to his page. But I should again emphasize: history, personal pages, and the like are not certified as accurate, and are only as accurate as the time and effort of individual contributors have made them. Only legal pages are accountable for pure accuracy, and the rest is the hard work of many willing volunteers.
5. To the best of my knowledge, only the wiki page has him as vacant, and the Cort has not operated yet in his absence, nor had he been replaced. Please direct me to the proclamation/bill/whatever wherein he was removed, if you know otherwise.
6. This one I can't answer, since I don't know.
7. Well, he wasn't Attorney-General. He hadn't been for a long while.
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Nov 30, 2013 16:00:09 GMT -6
I'd rather say these are the correct answers:
1. To tell everyone that even though he renounced his citizenship, he was let in back again using a loophole.
2. Because he renounced his citizenship.
3. Because he renounced his citizenship.
4. Because he renounced his citizenship.
5. Because he renounced his citizenship.
6. Because he renounced his citizenship.
7. What Alexandréu says.
Regardless, I'm happy he's back.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Nov 30, 2013 16:08:44 GMT -6
Is he really even back?
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Nov 30, 2013 16:16:43 GMT -6
As a citizen, at least. If Witt presence were a criterion, we'd be down to fifteen citizens all of a sudden. |
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Nov 30, 2013 16:19:39 GMT -6
Can someone check whether his account can be operated?  EDIT: Self do, self have:
I checked, his account is a mere "name", inexistent. Question is: do we recognise this Prime Dictate as duly delivered? |
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"Ceterum censeo republicam proclamandum esse."
