Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jan 21, 2013 15:52:40 GMT -6
From and for The Royal Talossan College of Arms To the Clerk of Courts -- Acting on behalf of the Royal Household, the Royal Talossan College of Arms herewith petitions His Majesty's Most Honourable Uppermost Court or the Honourable Court of Magistracy to immediately issue a permanent injunction preventing the enactment of the executive order issued by the government of the Free Province of Fiôvâ establishing a Fiôvân College of Arms. It is the position of the petitioner that the said order should be held inorganic as acting against Article III, Section 2 of the Organic Law of the Kingdom of Talossa, and that it would further be found in violation of Talossan Statutory Laws 34RZ13, The Royal Talossan Heraldic Authority Act, and its amending act 35RZ24, The Royal Household Cleaning Act. Respectfully submitted this 21st day of January, being Landmark Day as observed in the Kingdom of Talossa, in the year 2013, the thirty-fourth year of the independence of the Kingdom of Talossa, and the sixth year of the reign of our gracious sovereign John. Ma la Mha Squirrel King of Arms Kingdom of Talossa
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 21, 2013 16:40:18 GMT -6
I'll see your Orglaw III, 2 and raise you an Orglaw XVII, 8. None of the references above forbid a Province having its own College of Arms, or say that only the Kingdom (or Royal Household) can give out arms. We looked this up.
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Post by Iustì Carlüs Canun on Jan 21, 2013 16:48:43 GMT -6
III§2: "All powers not vested in the Kingdom by this Organic Law shall be vested exclusively in the Provinces."
The right to issue arms isn't a "power not vested in the Kingdom." Conferring awards and decorations (Arms are an award) is a Royal Power, given to the King. So no, you can't have your own College of Arms. And even if you could, you wouldn't be allowed to display arms granted by said college without approval from the real College of Arms.
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jan 21, 2013 16:54:23 GMT -6
Begging the Court's indulgence for amending my petition on this thread before any officer of the Court has taken notice of it, but after seeing the post made my Dame Miestrâ in response to the College's request, I wish to add the following rhetorical inquiries to my remarks:
Ain't Talossa a total kick in the pants? You just gotta love this nation, don't you?
Hool
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 21, 2013 17:01:01 GMT -6
Conferring awards and decorations (Arms are an award) is a Royal Power, given to the King. So, the Fiôvan institution of the award of "Stalwart of the Four Stars" is also illegal? If the Cort upholds this reading of the bill, then are we not allowed to award prizes for chess tournaments and the like? Such a reading would be contrary to sanity, let alone natural justice.
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Óïn Ursüm
Posts: 1,032
Talossan Since: 3-10-2009
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Post by Óïn Ursüm on Jan 21, 2013 17:05:39 GMT -6
I seem to recall the Ziu exercizing the supposed "Royal Power" of declaring national holidays too.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 21, 2013 17:21:26 GMT -6
Well, by assenting to that act of the Ziu, the monarchy clearly assented to the devolution of that power. Just like, by issuing the executive order, the monarchy (in the person of the Cunstavál) clearly assented to this order. So the Fiovan College of Arms has clearly got a royal mandate, provisionally at least.
This is an interesting test case. If John R decides to override his Cunstavál's decision, then Hooligan will be right; but if he doesn't, then clearly the King approves of the devolution of some of his awarding powers to the Fiovan College of Arms/
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jan 21, 2013 17:22:14 GMT -6
This is going to be a fun debate, I can tell. But I would ask that it be moved elsewhere. It is technically a violation of Wittiquette to be posting in this thread unless and until the Court requests any specific party to do so.
Hool
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 21, 2013 17:51:57 GMT -6
Actually, I challenge whether this injunction should be even heard in this court at all. Surely, under the Constitution of Fiôvâ, the Landsdoom of Fiôvâ is the court of first reference.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2013 20:30:36 GMT -6
Here, before me comes The Royal College of Arms, with petition for judicial relief for a matter requiring redress under the laws of the Kingdom of Talossa. The college, seeking emergency injunction to block certain actions by the government of Fiova, comes before me in prayer for said remedy as permitted by the Organic Law Article XVI: Section 13:
Any judge or justice may issue court orders or injunctions according to the generally accepted principles of Anglo-American law…the final arbiter of the organicity of the injunctions is the Uppermost Cort of Talossa.
Background of the case
On or about 21 January 2013, a proclamation was made by Cunstuval Istefan Perþonest and countersigned by Capitan C. Carlüs Xheraltescu, thus authorizing said proclamation as law under the constitution of Fiova:
WHEREAS, the art of heraldry enhances the cultural life and prestige of Talossa, and
WHEREAS, the current Kingdom College of Arms is mired in dissension whether those who refuse to swear allegiance to the monarchy are entitled to arms granted by that monarchy, and
WHEREAS, we believe that the republican-minded Talossan people should not be excluded from the heraldic tradition, and
WHEREAS, the granting of new coats of arms and crests should be encouraged and a simple procedure to obtain new arms should be created, now
THEREFORE the Free Province of Fiôvâ hereby establishes the Fiôvan College of Arms (in the national language: el Colétx Fiôván dels Armeux) with the following mandate:
a. Granting new arms and crests to individuals, organizations, and government departments that make a request to the College, whether Fiôvan or from other Talossan provinces; b. The fostering of a republican tradition of heraldry in Talossan.
Petitioner alleges that this proclamation is a violation of Talossan Statute 34RZ13 as well as 35RZ24.
Analysis of Law
The respondent contends (in unsolicited argument before the court) that this action was not prohibited by relevant statute law and was protected by:
III§2: "All powers not vested in the Kingdom by this Organic Law shall be vested exclusively in the Provinces."
Dame Schiva also raises a question of jurisdiction, arguing that this case should be heard first in the Landsdoom of Fiova. However, as the alleged injured party is the Royal College of Arms, an office of the Royal Household created by Talossan statute, they are justified in seeking action in courts of the realm without first seeking the relief of the provincial judiciary.
The primary issue being whether the province, its cunstuval and premier, were authorized to enact this proclamation and whether the actions of the Fiovan College of Arms would be a violation of relevant law. The proclamation was, in terms of form, correctly done. It was duly counter-signed by the Capitan.
It is every province's right to form organizations not prohibited by Organic Law (i.e. a province cannot form its own bank and issue its own currency, according to the OrgLaw). However, these organizations are bound to operate within the confines of both provincial and Talossan (Organic and Statutory) Law.
As the proclamation clearly states that it is being formed in response to actions by the Royal College of Arms, the motives of its founders are to be considered. The formation of the Fiovan College of Arms was lawful under the Organic Law. However, the Fiovan College of Arms cannot engage in any activity which infringes upon the function and responsibilities of the Royal College of Arms.
While a Cunstuval derives his or her authority from the King, and vice regal assent is considered, in most cases, to be equivalent to royal assent, this does not mean that the Cunstuval can act as the King in all matters. The organic law is clear:
Article III Section 2: The King is the symbolic head of the nation. The nation democratically grants the King and his successors certain Royal Powers: The right to declare national holidays, grant titles of nobility, make the annual Speech From the Throne on the 26th of December (or at other times when events warrant), to veto bills (or Prime Dictates), to issue Writs of Dissolution and Warrants of Prorogation for the Cosâ, to grant pardons and commute sentences, to confer awards and decorations, to appoint the Seneschál after elections, and to appoint Governors of Territories upon the advice of the Seneschál.
The Cunstuval, unless granted special authority by letters patent, has no authority to grant titles of nobility. Yet, this proclamation vests this responsibility in the Fiovan College of arms. At a minimum, this function of the Fiovan College of Arms is inorganic and shall not be carried out under current law.
The proclamation also states:
WHEREAS, the granting of new coats of arms and crests should be encouraged and a simple procedure to obtain new arms should be created, now
THEREFORE the Free Province of Fiôvâ hereby establishes the Fiôvan College of Arms (in the national language: el Colétx Fiôván dels Armeux) with the following mandate:
Which clearly establishes that the purpose of this new institution is to circumvent the lawfully established Royal College of Arms.
RULING
When evaluating both the form of this proclamation and the stated intent of its authors, there exists sufficient question as to the organicity of this proclamation.
Therefore, I hereby enjoin the Fiovan College of Arms from the design, award or registration of any arms, crest or other heraldic device to any individual, this being the exclusive domain of the Royal College of Arms. The Fiovan College of Arms may continue to design and award crests for provincial government or private institutions, though no other province will be required to recognize said crests until they are registered with the Royal College of Arms.
This case is to be forwarded to the Magistracy for adjudication. Their decision may be appealed to the Uppermost Cort in accordance with Talossan law. Interested parties shall file applicable briefs with the clerk of courts for this matter to be heard.
I will also remind the people of Fiova that if they feel the Royal College of Arms is not executing its duties fairly or otherwise doing its civic duty, its recourse is legislative change (through the Ziu) or seeking judicial relief, not starting your own agency to undermine another
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2013 8:20:27 GMT -6
And the next person to post here without consent of a Justice will be held in contempt of this court. This is my first and final warning on the matter.
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