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Post by markymark on Jun 6, 2004 6:29:31 GMT -6
Azul!
Loyal Talossans and Others Present!
During the last few weeks, we have witnessed the climax in a controversy that has been brewing for several months. As Talossans who are loyal to The King and to our country, we must divert our attention away from this crisis and onto building the RT.
The resolve and energy of our citizens, and our prospective citizens; has been demonstrated throughout the course of this conflict. We have pulled together, and despite the loss of some citizens- we may yet be stronger for it.
Over the kingdom's twenty-five year history, many storms have sought to destroy us. From examining our proud past we can be given the courage to move on. These recent events are truly depressing, but as my Prime Minister has stated we cannot focus on this matter. The traitors are no longer citizens, so they are of no concern. I feel for all those who have friends and close associates in the group of ex-citizens.
I would like to thank all the loyal subjects who have been working so hard to keep the Kingdom functioning. There are so many; your loyalty and your devotion to duty have not gone by unnoticed.
God Save The King!
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Lord Q
Citizen since 5-21-1998; Baron since 2-23-2006
The beatings will continue until morale improves
Posts: 1,263
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Post by Lord Q on Jun 6, 2004 11:10:51 GMT -6
Hear, hear! Well said, Your Excellency!
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Post by seahobbit on Jun 6, 2004 15:44:33 GMT -6
I only partly agree,
While I acknowledge that we should not dwell on the past and not let the sudden departure of the Republicans affect us. I nevertheless am more worried about Talossa's survival now than I was this week.
Talossa has numerous problems that need addressing, some of those problem are the cause of the miscontentement that have led numerous citizens in the past to leave. Many of those problems can be summarized in a lack of confindence in Talossan institutions.
I know for a fact that I am not the only loyal Talossan that believe things need to be done, and done now!
Somethings will have to give believe me. Talossa will not survive without drastic changes. No, Talossa can't remain what it was, it needs reform.
Marc Moisan, C.D.
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Post by ron on Jun 7, 2004 20:07:09 GMT -6
I cannot believe you posted that. Christ!
I hope you're prepared to lead a series of reforms that address the reasons the Republicans got outta Dodge. If not, we need to find someone who will.
I will not allow anyone to forget why 1 June 2004 occurred.
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Post by markymark on Jun 8, 2004 19:45:40 GMT -6
To be honest, I do not have all of the answers as to why certain people left Talossa. I am trying to be as diplomatic as possible, and as a citizen of Talossa it is very upsetting to witness our beloved Kingdom being torn apart.
It is crucial to remain optimistic. The fact remains that the majority of citizens have not left. The Kingdom of Talossa has faced similar situations before, and we have survived. Does this mean that we are not concerned about this crisis; absolutely not- but we must put it in perspective.
I am deeply troubled over these matters, both as Regent and as an individual citizen. If there are problems that need to be dealt with; please bring them forward. I am sure that we can all come to a mutual understanding if issues are raised respectfully and honestly.
God Save The King!
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Post by ron on Jun 9, 2004 20:25:51 GMT -6
> To be honest, I do not have all of the answers as to why certain people left Talossa. I am trying to be as diplomatic as possible, and as a citizen of Talossa it is very upsetting to witness our beloved Kingdom being torn apart.
Mark, you know exactly why they left. Diplomacy is over. It is time to act.
> It is crucial to remain optimistic. The fact remains that the majority of citizens have not left. The Kingdom of Talossa has faced similar situations before, and we have survived. Does this mean that we are not concerned about this crisis; absolutely not- but we must put it in perspective.
We lost the heart of our on-line community. We lost our friends. We lost a substantial part of Talossa. Optimism is a good thing but must be tempered with pro-action.
> I am deeply troubled over these matters, both as Regent and as an individual citizen. If there are problems that need to be dealt with; please bring them forward. I am sure that we can all come to a mutual understanding if issues are raised respectfully and honestly.
Ah...loooking into the REAL LIFE records of someone, distorting the results of said record search and misrepresenting the truth are three good reasons you need to ACT. Q must do the same, be it by PD or through legislation.
Real life never had anything to do with Talossa. It is an imaginary world conceived by one man. This used to be fun.
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Post by markymark on Jun 10, 2004 5:34:22 GMT -6
If you are expecting me to start attacking The King and defending the republicans, then you are going to be disappointed. It is not my job as Regent to do so, nor is it a personal goal of mine!
From my point of view, I know who has erred in this controversy. I have already stated my feelings on this matter many times on Witt. No matter what the reasons were for leaving, the republicans committed treason.
Am I upset that some resorted to this? Yes. Will Talossa miss the talent of some of these former citizens? Yes. They have clearly stated their intention to leave Talossa, that is their choice.
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Post by ron on Jun 10, 2004 11:07:27 GMT -6
> If you are expecting me to start attacking The King and defending the republicans, then you are going to be disappointed. It is not my job as Regent to do so, nor is it a personal goal of mine!
Nobody said anything about attacking Ben. Ben is nice and very convincing in person and on the phone. However, his perception of things sometimes evokes the phrase, "vivid imagination."
Ensuring the citizenry's well being is part of your job. I want guaranteed privacy and solid laws that ensure no Talossan is above the law - be they royal or be they regular. You have to make sure the past cannot be repeated.
Ben has investigated others' background. It is now a trend. Remember when he did this to Woz? Maybe you don't, but I do. I am sure Witt is cached somewhere - check summer, 2001.
> From my point of view, I know who has erred in this controversy. I have already stated my feelings on this matter many times on Witt. No matter what the reasons were for leaving, the republicans committed treason.
Grubi made an error. Ben made a larger error. If you think this secession is just "a minor correction" or "routine housecleaning," then I have no desire to remain here either.
What is your definition of treason?
Here's the accepted definition from The American Heritage Dictionary:
"The betrayal of ones own country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely aiding its enemies."
How did they commit treason by this definition?
> Am I upset that some resorted to this? Yes. Will Talossa miss the talent of some of these former citizens? Yes. They have clearly stated their intention to leave Talossa, that is their choice.
Make sure this cannot happen again by ensuring our privacy and ensuring that ALL are held accountable.
If you are not big enough to recognize the Kingdom's problems and willing to provide expedient solutions to these same problems, step-down and put someone in charge that will - JJ comes to mind.
Do you value your privacy? Are you above the law?
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Lord Q
Citizen since 5-21-1998; Baron since 2-23-2006
The beatings will continue until morale improves
Posts: 1,263
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Post by Lord Q on Jun 10, 2004 14:21:50 GMT -6
Ensuring the citizenry's well being is part of your job. I want guaranteed privacy and solid laws that ensure no Talossan is above the law - be they royal or be they regular. You have to make sure the past cannot be repeated. I already believe that the laws apply equally, but M-P brought up a good point earlier on: if the Monarch/Regent does violate a law, it takes a hell of a lot to really do something about it. This cannot continue. We can make it illegal under Talossan law, but the problem with enforcement is that we don't know about it unless we're told. What you say is true, but don't forget that they snuck out and hung us out to dry. They are trying to create a situation in which we become so disgusted with what's left that we feel we have no choice but to join them. If they were really that concerned about us, they wouldn't have done what they did in the manner that they did it. There are other equally valid definitions from other sources: American Heritage, Fourth ed. - "1. Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies. 2. A betrayal of trust or confidence." Webster's Revised Unabriged - "The offense of attempting to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance, or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power; disloyalty; treachery." Wordnet (Princeton University) - "1: a crime that undermines the offender's government. 2: disloyalty by virtue of subversive behavior. 3: an act of deliberate betrayal." Treason isn't just "aiding the enemy." Indeed, this doesn't even have to happen for treason to occur. The leaders of the provinces claimed by the republicans acted against the will of their people and have claimed that they are Talossa. They have acted against the legitimate government of Talossa. That's treason. Of course, the dilemma is: they have not been convicted of it, so until such time as the Cort decides such, in the eyes of the law they are not traitors. But, the Cort has decided that they are no longer citizens, so there's no repercussion for calling them such. Interesting situation. I'm working on solutions. I don't want this to happen again either. Just because I'm not on Witt every day saying so doesn't mean it isn't true. I agree with a lot of what you say, Ron. I'm upset too that they felt the only choice they had was the one they took. But don't try to intimidate me into doing things the way you want, when you want it. If you feel you can do the job better than me, I will by all means support you as PM. If not, then settle down a bit. |
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Post by markymark on Jun 10, 2004 16:34:32 GMT -6
Nobody said anything about attacking Ben. Ben is nice and very convincing in person and on the phone. However, his perception of things sometimes evokes the phrase, "vivid imagination."
-I am not so sure of what you are referring to. Let us leave remarks about Ben out of this. If you want to make changes to Talossa that is fine with me; however, it is time to stop blaming everything on Ben.
Ensuring the citizenry's well being is part of your job. I want guaranteed privacy and solid laws that ensure no Talossan is above the law - be they royal or be they regular. You have to make sure the past cannot be repeated.
-If you desire such changes in legislation, I would encourage you to put such motions on the next Clark, and/or work in conjunction with other interested citizens to table these bills. I am not trying to dodge work here; but that is something for you, or anyone else for that matter to do. That is not my job as Regent.
What is your definition of treason?
-See Q's response, he pretty much covered this. To revolt against a legitimate government, claim territory that is not yours to claim, and "depose" your Sovereign illegally is treason in my books!
If you are not big enough to recognize the Kingdom's problems and willing to provide expedient solutions to these same problems, step-down and put someone in charge that will - JJ comes to mind.
-Once again, these changes to which you refer, require new legislation. If these issues matter so much to you- do something about it! The power is in your hands!
As for The King being above the law; he is not above the law; however, he is in a unique position; and as such, unique rules may or may not apply.
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Post by ron on Jun 10, 2004 17:17:16 GMT -6
Mark, I am not intimidating you. I am calling on you to rectify the privacy and accountability issues that plauge the Kingdom of Talossa. We are watched by many and must clean-up our own mess in a timely manner.
I believe that we need to do this now (read: before Ben returns - prior to 20 June 2004). It must come from above. I am more than willing to work WITH you in the creation of legislation or on PD language (if that is how Q wishes to procede). It has to happen. I am sure there are others that are just as willing to assist.
I will not call the Republicans "treasonous" as it is a legal term. Am I happy I was locked out of Witt? No. Am I happy that there was a secession? No. Can we initiate procedures in OrgLaw that address many of the reasons that they chose to diverge? Yes. By swiftly fixing our system, you add credibility to it and ultimately, prove them wrong.
We know what occurred. It was all wrong. Any man can do nothing; Only the courageous take action. Silence is consent.
I will not be quiet about the way I feel on this - out of sight is out of mind. I have no political aspirations other than to support a few reforms that we've needed for a long time. Both you and Q have an opportunity to prove our system works. Since the MN is the clear winner this election, we must lead by example.
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Lord Q
Citizen since 5-21-1998; Baron since 2-23-2006
The beatings will continue until morale improves
Posts: 1,263
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Post by Lord Q on Jun 10, 2004 17:34:36 GMT -6
Unfortunately, this WILL take time to fix. These are changes to the OrgLaw that we have to make. I can't PD things to go to referendum, it has to go through the Ziu. The earliest opportunity to present these changes will occur July 1. I believe then that the first referenda opportunity is August 1, and the changes would take effect September 1. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Right now, about all we *can* do is talk. This of course can help ensure the path of least resistance to these bills passing.
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Post by ron on Jun 10, 2004 19:25:04 GMT -6
If we get a solid majority that favors immediate action, why would we delay implementing the needed changes?
There has to be a way to rectify the privacy issue at the minimum. Witt was passworded with lightning speed due to the Cornish-nut and the Gay Libertarian; and all because of public outcry.
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Lord Q
Citizen since 5-21-1998; Baron since 2-23-2006
The beatings will continue until morale improves
Posts: 1,263
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Post by Lord Q on Jun 10, 2004 22:52:05 GMT -6
Changing the OrgLaw and passwording a message board are two completely different things.
The OrgLaw's already been thrown out the window once this month. If we're going to do this, it has to be done right, no matter how long it takes.
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Post by seahobbit on Jun 11, 2004 15:12:52 GMT -6
Changing the OrgLaw and passwording a message board are two completely different things. The OrgLaw's already been thrown out the window once this month. If we're going to do this, it has to be done right, no matter how long it takes. Indeed, I would not support any attempts to go outside current legislation. Marc Moisan, C.D. |
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