OrgLaw Committee?

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

Estimats Members of the Cosa and Senators,

I think it is time that we finally form a committee to plug the holes in the Organic Law. I myself can think of a few of said holes, especially around election law. What says the Ziu?

Alexandreu Gavártgic'h

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

Ok, I gotta ask.

What's not broken NOW, that doesn't need to be fixed?

[Owen Edwards]

I think, rather than grizzled cynicism, what Mick meant to put across was asking if you could explain your concerns re the OrgLaw. From what we've discussed, they didn't seem crazy to me, but the whole Ziu needs to know exactly what the issues are.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

I rather think that "grizzled cynicism" * quite aptly describes my comment.

But anyway-

Any change in OrgLaw must first go through both houses of the Ziu (and approved by a 2/3rds majority), and then be approved by a majorityl of the Citizens of the Kingdom.

So, instead of laying out another level of discussion (and another layer of government) by forming a 'committee' , just go ahead and bring out the discussion on the Witt section of the board, and let all the citizens have their input from the start.

If enough people can agree on a change at a grass roots level of discussion, then an Amendment would probably make it pass the Ziu, and be easily accepted by the majority of the Citizens.

If does not gather the support of the common citizen though, then no blue ribbon 'committee' has even a glimmer of hope getting an Amendment passed. Especially if it's rehashing the same things that been brought up in the last 6 months.

*I think I will also accept the description "curmudgeon", btw.

[Vit Caçeir]

alexandreu said:

I myself can think of a few of said holes, especially around election law. What says the Ziu?

Perhaps you would be so kind as to explain some of these purported "holes"? Because right now, the Organic Law looks pretty hole-less to me. However, it would be nice to hear and discuss any suggestions you might bring up.

Additionally, I must agree with what Capt. Preston said. Rather than adding another step to a lengthy process, I'd recommend just having informal discussion with like-minded legislators and proposing legislation based on those discussions. However, at this time I personally see no useful purpose in organizing a governmental committee for this... at least that's my opinion.

Don't try and fix a clock if it's already telling the right time.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

I agree with MC Gavartich that there are holes that need to be filled, but also with MC Preston that we should probably do such filling publicly. I see the wisdom of a committee, I admit, since it is often more streamlined and simple, but I am justly admonished that transparency is a greater need.

The first issue is that of language. Portions of the OrgLaw need to be arestadafied, although I should add that I feel that any terms of title or the like should be grandfathered in as still in use and venerable. Another issue is that of provincial management, wherein the exact powers of the Cunstavals and their utility are not spelled out. This language either needs to be clarified or dropped, I think. A third issue is that of writs of dissolution, a power of the King that is unchecked. While I greatly respect our monarch and the power of his throne (indeed, I have debated ceaselessly for the integrity of both), I feel that the King should not have the power to dissolve the Cosa without some oversight on that power from some agency. I would suggest that the legislators on this floor spend some time discussing these matters and suggesting any other changes, arriving at an itemized list of issues which we can then move to the main Witt for discussion with the people.

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

Thank you Senator Davis.

The point of this committee would be to list all the possible "holes" in the OrgLaw. Senator Davis has actually listed most of the thing I was thinking of (BTW - The plural of Cunstaval is Cunstavais).

[Deleted]

Dréu,

Were the chambers of the Ziu really the best place to throw this idea out there?

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

I think so. After all, it will be the Ziu who will be dealing with this eventually. No?

[Deleted]

It just doesn't seem to be "official business" as much as a "hey, I have an idea" that might have been better suited for another board. But hey, I just empty the trash cans around here.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

I am still quite hesitant about forming a committee for this. To do so, there would have to be a dictate about the size of the committee, the makeup of the members, who can get involved, who can address the committee, hearings, meetings, etc, etc...

Then, the cabal committee reports to ..who? their findings and suggestions. Then laws must be drawn up, etc, etc.

I say, take it to an open forum , let all the citizens participate in the discussions, let all the people who wish add their voice to the process.

It's their OrgLaw. Let the Citizens in on the process, from day one.

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

Hmm... perhaps you are correct. I shall open this discussion on witt.

[Vit Caçeir]

agbdavis said:

The first issue is that of language. Portions of the OrgLaw need to be arestadafied, although I should add that I feel that any terms of title or the like should be grandfathered in as still in use and venerable. Another issue is that of provincial management, wherein the exact powers of the Cunstavals and their utility are not spelled out. This language either needs to be clarified or dropped, I think.

Both very good points... something I would agree with.

agbdavis said:

A third issue is that of writs of dissolution, a power of the King that is unchecked. While I greatly respect our monarch and the power of his throne (indeed, I have debated ceaselessly for the integrity of both), I feel that the King should not have the power to dissolve the Cosa without some oversight on that power from some agency.

While I feel that our current monarch would not abuse the powers granted to him under the Writs of Dissolution, I would agree that this is a power that needs to be checked in case of future... disagreements. However, I myself cannot think of a way to balance out the tables without giving the Monarch too much or too little power in the situation... either way, I agree it is something to be discussed.

And as long as we're on the topic of Writs of Dissolution, there was something I wanted to ask about.... according to Article XIII Section 3....

"The Seneschál may appeal for such a Writ of Dissolution, and the King may under no circumstances refuse such an appeal"

Although I also know the current Seneschál would not abuse such a power, it seems to me that allowing the King no say in it also gives the Seneschál an absolute Writ of Dissolution power, which.... in my eyes defeats one of the most defining purposes of multiple houses of Government. As long as we are discussing "holes" in the OrgLaw, is this possibly something that can be reviewed?

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

"Although I also know the current Seneschál would not abuse such a power, it seems to me that allowing the King no say in it also gives the Seneschál an absolute Writ of Dissolution power, which.... in my eyes defeats one of the most defining purposes of multiple houses of Government. As long as we are discussing "holes" in the OrgLaw, is this possibly something that can be reviewed?"

Look at it this way. The Senate is unaffected by a Writ of Dissolution. They hold terms of Office dictated by time, not politics.

On the other hand, if the Seneschál does ask for a Writ of Dissolution, he must be terribly fed up with the current Cosa. To do this, though , means that he either thinks he can keep the Majority vote of the people, and can re-assign seats- or, he feels that his current government does not reflect the will of the people, and wants a new mandate.

Either way, the King cannot tell the Seneschál that he must keep the current Cosa in power. Instead, he (the King) mus accede to the wishes of the Seneschál to form a new government.

The Senate remains untouched, and the Ministers of the Cosa must go hat in hand to their constituents, begging to be seated again.