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Post by Eðo Grischun on Jul 2, 2019 17:33:13 GMT -6
Well that leaves is with a major fundamental problem.
Talossa can't have ideological debates without things descending into personal bickering,
Talossa can't do institutional reform without things descending into personal bickering,
Talossa can't even seem to do the cultural fun stuff without into descending...
Your right with your historical analysis. The problem wasn't the ideology. You rightly point out, the personal grudges underneath take over.
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Post by Audrada Rôibeardét on Jul 2, 2019 18:44:32 GMT -6
I'll tell you what's wrong!
Actually, I have no idea what's wrong. My views on Talossa are a bit...fringe? I think I'm one of the few people who isn't really in to politricks. Oops, I mean politics. It might not trip your trigger but I like the bickering. Gives me something to read. It's like the Talossan version of reality TV.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 2, 2019 23:57:47 GMT -6
Personal relations in Talossa have always been a tricky issue, because - on the one hand - any discussion about Talossa, even nasty discussion, is the lifeblood of Talossa. The only problem is that nasty discussion burns people out. But sometime the alternative is no discussion.
This was true in King Robert I's time too. But in the pre-Cybercit era, virtually all citizens were friends of the King or at least friends of friends. So the bickering took on the guise of "friendly trolling" which had built-in limits. In 1988 an election was won by the "Bob Fights Ticket", whose policy was to restore RBM as King and his arch-nemesis Bob Murphy as Seneschál, for the funny fighting it would produce.
In the Internet era - and RBM admitted as such in his recent, abortive attempt to regain citizenship - every time Talossa got "boring", RBM would start some kind of fight to liven things up. But these were not ideological fights - or, if they were, they always degenerated into personal fights, in the sense that whoever had a different ideology to RBM was declared a traitor, scum, a vile worm, etc etc etc. Such things are much easier when you don't even live in the same town as the people you're smearing.
Look, we are never going to like every other Talossan, and it is not realistic to think we will. What we need to discuss is sanctions for behaviour which promotes negativity. The Cabinet Code of Conduct is one step, and hopefully moderation of the new, nationalised Wittenberg will be a second step. But it's also necessary for everyone to understand that it is possible to "start a fight" without swearing, and while still using polite language.
I've discussed what should be the proper response when your political opponent starts outright lying about you - it might turn into a nasty slanging match, or you might just waste a lot of time and precious electrons rebutting lies and thus derailing a conversation. We need a way that we can discourage people from thinking that it's acceptable to lie in the first place.
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Post by Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h on Jul 3, 2019 8:59:00 GMT -6
We need to be better fact-checkers and call people out when they err.
Now, let's test this out. Ián Anglatzarâ hates sci-fi and fantasy. He doesn't read books at all, actually.
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Post by Txec Rôibeardsëfiglheu on Jul 3, 2019 13:08:20 GMT -6
Well I heard that GV eats paste!
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Jul 3, 2019 13:30:52 GMT -6
I'm rather disappointed that you and other republicans didn't go all in with your ideology. Part of the stale flavour is a lack of ideological battle. You should have been fighting tooth and nail for a republic all this time, while the Rump defended the monarchy. Always good to hear my political opponents tell me what I should be doing, lol, it's very trustworthy. I'm sure you know what I mean. I shouldn't have put it as "you should" and "we should". What I meant to say was 'what I would like to have seen happen'.
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Post by Audrada Rôibeardét on Jul 3, 2019 15:24:04 GMT -6
Back in the Republic, there was an urban legend about 'Breezys' eating cats. Can't remember where it came from.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 3, 2019 15:35:55 GMT -6
Back in the Republic, there was an urban legend about 'Breezys' eating cats. Can't remember where it came from. It was an adaptation of a legend about the town of Vicenza, Italy. I got it from a book about football fans from the neighbouring town of Verona, who take banners with the Whiskas logo on it to games in Vicenza. There is a saying about the towns in that area which I would love to see adapted to Talossan provinces: Padovani gran dottori Veneziani gran signori Vicenzani magnagati Veronesi tuti mati(People from Padua are great scholars; people from Venice are great lords; people from Vicenza eat cats; people from Verona are all insane.)
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Post by Audrada Rôibeardét on Jul 3, 2019 15:56:02 GMT -6
We are Verona. Let's get cracking on the name change.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 3, 2019 16:35:45 GMT -6
We are Verona. Let's get cracking on the name change. BRIGATE GIALLOBLÙ! HELLAS VERONA, VINCI PER NOI! No, seriously, I would recommend that all Talossans should read Tim Parks' A Season with Verona for its insight into football fandom, which IMHO has a similar impulse behind it to micronationalism. There is a deep-seated need to grab a flag and fight for your tribe's honour against those guys over there.
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Post by Audrada Rôibeardét on Jul 3, 2019 16:56:23 GMT -6
We were fighting those guys over there and then we joined them.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Jul 3, 2019 19:41:54 GMT -6
I'm not much of a tribalist, except in a linguistic sense.
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Jul 4, 2019 1:28:09 GMT -6
Back in the Republic, there was an urban legend about 'Breezys' eating cats. Can't remember where it came from. It was an adaptation of a legend about the town of Vicenza, Italy. I got it from a book about football fans from the neighbouring town of Verona, who take banners with the Whiskas logo on it to games in Vicenza. There is a saying about the towns in that area which I would love to see adapted to Talossan provinces: Padovani gran dottori Veneziani gran signori Vicenzani magnagati Veronesi tuti mati(People from Padua are great scholars; people from Venice are great lords; people from Vicenza eat cats; people from Verona are all insane.) Didn't think I would see this pop up here of all places. The full text with all of Veneto's provinces is: "Veneziani, gran Signori; Padovani, gran dotori; Visentini, magna gati; Veronesi tuti mati; Trevisani, pan e tripe; Rovigòti, baco e pipe; E Belun? Póre Belun, te se proprio de nisun!"
The Venice line is naturally about the Serene Republic; the Padua line references the University, where I'm currently studying; Vicenza's is indeed a legend and a reference to poverty; and it seems Verona's either references the frequent breezes from the northern mountains or two historical madhouses.
The extra lines roughly translate to "people from Treviso eat bread and tripes" (reference to poverty); "people from Rovigo like Bacchus and pipe" (spirits and smoking); and "Belluno, poor Belluno, belongs to nobody (for being in the mountains, cold and isolated from the rest of the provincial capitals)".
I'm down with adapting this to Talossa. We need interprovincial folklore. Are you aware that Hellas's fans are disproportionately rightwing thugs?
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 4, 2019 4:44:56 GMT -6
Are you aware that Hellas's fans are disproportionately rightwing thugs? I am, and it's a shame. Still, at least they don't go nuts about black people playing for them these days. There's a cute scene in Tim Parks' book where they're playing Udine and the fans can't think of anything to heckle Udine about except for the earthquake of 1976. Thus: "Terremotati! Voi siete terremotati!"
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