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Post by Eðo Grischun on Feb 28, 2016 15:56:23 GMT -6
And I don't even want to take over from Charlie! I just want to do this one thing that he said he was going to do, hasn't done, and is urgent. No. You can't do that. You can't just do one task as Seneschal then jump back out. This is not a hokey cokey circle where we sing "in, out, in, out, and shake it all about". You either take over the office of Seneschal or you don't.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Feb 28, 2016 15:58:14 GMT -6
Thank you for that legal principle you just pulled out of... thin air.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Feb 28, 2016 16:01:58 GMT -6
Thank you for that legal principle you just pulled out of... thin air. In context, this is an awesome quote. For myself, I'm stoked we've had a coup. Seneschal is off Witt for four days and the Distain starts making laws!
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Feb 28, 2016 16:06:11 GMT -6
And I don't even want to take over from Charlie! I just want to do this one thing that he said he was going to do, hasn't done, and is urgent. Thank you for this legal principle that you just pulled out of thin air.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Feb 28, 2016 16:08:53 GMT -6
By the way, I have asked the remaining Cabinet ministers for their backing on this. Owen Edwards (Finance), Munditenens Tresplet (Interior) and Françal Ian Lux (Culture) have given their thumbs up. No word from Breneir Itravilatx (Foreign) yet. The STUFF ministry is vacant. That's 4 Cabinet ministers out of 5, including me. Doesn't mean anything legally, but despite the dank memes posted by the RUMP leader (didn't know he had it in him) I have the backing of the current Governamáintsch Talossán in this.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Feb 28, 2016 16:09:27 GMT -6
I agree with Miestra for a change (well actually I agree with her quite often, but that doesn't always show for some reason). I never interpreted the position of Distain as having to sit around doing nothing except for the rare cases where the PM is gone for a long term and actually announces this (people actually announcing their absence is not something that happens enough here.), but as a complementary position for whenever the PM is not around. Why can't "absence" just mean 'not around at the moment'? Obviously the Distain should be careful to make policy that contradicts the PM or the governments position, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Feb 28, 2016 16:13:34 GMT -6
Constitutional crises are power-lifting for the body politic! Seriously - I do agree with AD that I do hope Charlie gets out of the hole soon and tells you guys to back off. It only becomes a real crisis if the clock ticks over to 1 March before he gets back.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Feb 28, 2016 16:13:49 GMT -6
"The Distain shall act in place of the Seneschal in the event of the latter's death, resignation, absence, or disability, until a new Seneschal shall be appointed."
So I guess if the Distain is acting in the place of the Seneschal because the Seneschal is absent, then Miestra is doing it "until a new Seneschal shall be appointed."
Did anyone notify the previous Seneschal that he'd been ejected, and that his Distain was acting in his place until a new Seneschal was appointed?
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Feb 28, 2016 16:16:00 GMT -6
Why can't "absence" just mean 'not around at the moment'? Because it can lead to a happenstance where the Distain orders 'XYZ', then the Seneschal pops back up and says 'um, no, I want ABC'. Which order stands? There should be a clear and definite chain of command at all times. If CCX is not available, then the Distain should be announced as Acting Seneschal.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Feb 28, 2016 16:18:37 GMT -6
The idea of a Schivâ autogolpe is admittedly a hilarious one, but we might want to calm down considering (a) no-one has asked the Head of State for his opinion on whether this should be allowed to stand or not; (b) this is a caretaker government anyway and I don't think anyone would tolerate either me or Charlie going "hog wild" between now and the formation of the 49th Cosa government. Calm yer tits, as we say around these parts.
And thanks for pointing out a possible ambiguity in OrgLaw XII.8 for the RCOR to fix, if you don't succeed in getting it closed down. ("Neutral", my blue braces!)
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Feb 28, 2016 16:22:15 GMT -6
What ambiguity? The OrgLaw says the Ziu can establish what "absent" or "inactive" means. If we want to establish that it's "not on Witt for four days," then we can do that by law, Generalissimo.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Feb 28, 2016 16:23:36 GMT -6
If we want to establish that it's "not on Witt for four days," then we can do that by law, Maybe citaxhien Miestra could issue a PD to that effect
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Feb 28, 2016 16:27:27 GMT -6
If we want to establish that it's "not on Witt for four days," then we can do that by law, Maybe citaxhien Miestra could issue a PD to that effect
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Feb 28, 2016 16:27:34 GMT -6
The ambiguity is whether the Seneschál can return from being absent, as you ably pointed out.
I am "acting in place" of the Seneschál in this one thing. Eðo's legal principle that I can only take over altogether, or else do nothing, is not convincing to me in the slightest. And 3 out of the 4 other Cabinet Ministers are backing me on this (1 yet to comment). So caumetz voastrâs eascrâs.
Seriously, AD: some dank and lulzy memes there, but can you save them all until after I win the election and become Seneschál fair and square?
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Feb 28, 2016 16:30:14 GMT -6
The OrgLaw doesn't say long term absence or absence for a week or something like that. It just says absence. The PM is currently absent...
In the absence of a Ziu approved legal definition of the word absence, it makes sense to just use the literal definition.
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