|
Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Feb 9, 2016 8:29:19 GMT -6
There are meaningful definitions on the wiki, if that helps, s:reu moderator.
|
|
|
Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Feb 9, 2016 9:09:19 GMT -6
There are meaningful definitions on the wiki, if that helps, s:reu moderator. I'd take some small issue with those definitions, but I guess that might trigger an editing war. I'd say more correct definitions would be: "Derivativism is the belief that Talossa should behave as if it were a real country in all important respects. It is in contrast to peculiarism, which believes Talossa should instead transcend this and be something new and unique." and "Peculiarism (Pecüliárismeu) is the belief that Talossa should not feel constrained to behave like other countries, but instead be its own special sort of entity. It is a genuine and unique Talossan ideology. According to this way of thinking, as Talossa is unique, it should not strive to imitate other nations and their habits. In other words, Derivatists do not believe that Talossa is like any other country, but that by behaving like one, it gets more fun for us. At least historically, this is closer to the truth, in my opinion. It's an obvious falsehood that we are like the Palestinian state or West Sahara. If we need to solve a problem, a Derivatist will say "Let's do it this way, that's the way they do it in Switzerland/Tanzania/Malaysia", whereas a Peculiarist might say "Let's do it this way, that how we do it in our soccer club and that works well for us," or "Let's do it this way, it sounds goofy, I know, but it would be fun to try, it would be uniquely Talossan!".
|
|
Óïn Ursüm
Posts: 1,032
Talossan Since: 3-10-2009
|
Post by Óïn Ursüm on Feb 9, 2016 10:17:38 GMT -6
There are meaningful definitions on the wiki, if that helps, s:reu moderator. I'd take some small issue with those definitions, but I guess that might trigger an editing war. I'd say more correct definitions would be: "Derivativism is the belief that Talossa should behave as if it were a real country in all important respects. It is in contrast to peculiarism, which believes Talossa should instead transcend this and be something new and unique." and "Peculiarism (Pecüliárismeu) is the belief that Talossa should not feel constrained to behave like other countries, but instead be its own special sort of entity. It is a genuine and unique Talossan ideology. According to this way of thinking, as Talossa is unique, it should not strive to imitate other nations and their habits. In other words, Derivatists do not believe that Talossa is like any other country, but that by behaving like one, it gets more fun for us. At least historically, this is closer to the truth, in my opinion. It's an obvious falsehood that we are like the Palestinian state or West Sahara. If we need to solve a problem, a Derivatist will say "Let's do it this way, that's the way they do it in Switzerland/Tanzania/Malaysia", whereas a Peculiarist might say "Let's do it this way, that how we do it in our soccer club and that works well for us," or "Let's do it this way, it sounds goofy, I know, but it would be fun to try, it would be uniquely Talossan!". Also, the wiki should probably give the historically correct Talossan English term 'derivatism' rather than 'derivativism'.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Feb 9, 2016 10:57:53 GMT -6
I'll accept any definition that the moderator suggests; I was only trying to be helpful. Please, folks, this is a debate!
|
|
|
Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Feb 9, 2016 11:04:18 GMT -6
No, no; please. Continue to comment, you have my blessing; I welcome the public participation! If Domnul Davinescu is concerned about our responses getting lost in the public's thoughts, maybe they can transfer to the thread opened for the Senatorial Debate?
Be it as it may, I think this goes to show just how rich, and yet how very much young our culture is (and, more importantly, that we do indeed have a culture that can be taken out of politics, a culture wherewith we can work non-politically). As I imagined, definitions are not as widely-accepted, as one may think them to be by the frequent use of those terms.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Feb 9, 2016 11:12:46 GMT -6
Public comment is welcome, but not in the middle of the debate. The moderator could perhaps open up a commentary thread for the public to comment while the debate is going on?
|
|
Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
|
Post by Ian Plätschisch on Feb 9, 2016 17:16:11 GMT -6
I ask that all those not party to the debate refrain from posting here in the future; I have opened a separate thread for that purpose.
Monarchist is defined as "The belief in the principle of having monarchs." Thus, a 10 would mean you support a very strong monarch, and a 0 would mean you do not want a monarch at all.
Derivatist is defined as "The belief that Talossa should operate like it is any other country." Thus, a 10 would mean you think Talossa should act exactly like other countries, and a 0 would mean you think Talossa should act completely different from other countries.
The question is directed first to Senator da Lhiun.
|
|
|
Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Feb 10, 2016 12:47:06 GMT -6
I rate myself thus:
Republican-----------------------------------------------------------------------↓------------------------------------------Monarchist ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓ 0------------1------------2------------3------------4------------5------------6------------7------------8------------9------------10
Rating: 6.1
Explanation: I support the Monarchy, however, I am more in favour of a democratically elected, non-hereditary, life-long monarchy. The Monarch should have limited legislative/judicative powers, and there should be a way to remove him democratically.
Peculiarist------------------------------------↓------------------------------------------------------------------------------Derivatist ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓ 0------------1------------2------------3------------4------------5------------6------------7------------8------------9------------10
Rating: 3.5
Explanation: This is rather difficult-to-rate. I think, my views on Peculiarism and Derivatism differ depending on the specific matter at hand. When we find a solution to a situation/problem whereunto no other macronational state has ever dared pave the way, and when that solution seems feasible, then we should very well dare to do so! However, in no way does this mean that I think of Talossa as not legitimate a state. We have the right, and the possibility, to do things the conventional way. The matter of the fact is, however, that the conventional ways never seem to work out in politics.
I furthermore wish to give you this rating of myself:
Right-Wing-----------------------------------------------------Centre------------------------------------↓-------------------Left-wing ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓ 0------------1------------2------------3------------4------------5------------6------------7------------8------------9------------10
Rating: 8 Explanation: I believe in socialism, democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of malicious intervention, and charity. Capitalism makes me feel bad, and communism makes me feel sad. I wish we were a charitable socio-capitalist world, where gender, sexuality, disability, and illnesses did not matter in society, or determine a man's worth.
Rational-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Wishful thinker ↓ ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓ 0------------1------------2------------3------------4------------5------------6------------7------------8------------9------------10
Rating: OFF THE CHARTS Explanation: I believe in the supernatural, because I am a unicorn fairy.
Thank you.
|
|
Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
|
Post by Ian Plätschisch on Feb 11, 2016 19:38:47 GMT -6
I will allow a bit of extra time due to the initial confusion, Sir Alexandreu Davinescu, but please post your answer soon.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Feb 11, 2016 20:27:57 GMT -6
Thanks! I volunteer at a local movie theatre, and just now got back. I'll do it right now.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Feb 11, 2016 20:49:17 GMT -6
I believe I am about an eight on a scale of one to ten of monarchism. That is to say, I have a lot of good reasons for thinking it's the best choice for Talossa, but I also think the monarch's powers should be defined and restrained into a constitutionally-limited role as part of a scheme of checks and balances. The monarchy offers a great deal to Talossa, and at times it's saved our bacon. As recent days have demonstrated, even a steadily swelling population doesn't help keep up our actually active citizens when things are mismanaged, and there have been times when stuff has gotten so bad -- either from mismanagement or from more dramatic events -- that only the institution of the monarchy has been able to keep Talossa going. The monarch is a also a position not beholden to immediate interests, either, even if he does justly derive his power from the consent of the governed, and that makes him uniquely situated to be in charge of certain offices. And of course, the monarchy is cool and interesting. There are very few democracies with active monarchs with an actual role in the system -- as opposed to autocrats or figureheads -- and that makes Talossa a pretty fun place to be around... which is why some people immigrate partially because it's a monarchy and monarchs are interesting! I know that when I first investigated Talossa, ten years ago, I looked at both the Republic of Talossa and the Kingdom of Talossa -- and chose the monarchy! I'm not sure about a scaled answer when it comes to derivatism, on the other hand. In part, this is because I think that the philosophy of it is more complex than some folks appreciate (although clearly it's still interesting enough that we have some visitors chiming in about it! Welcome! ) I will give myself another eight... but with explanation. I believe Talossa is a real nation, not a club or something peculiar and new. To that end, I believe we should act as though we were a real nation: in our own best pragmatic interest. There are other approaches, including what I term cargo-cult derivatism. CC Derivatists urge Talossa to simply mimic larger nations, doing the same things that they do out of thoughtless imitation. They might not think of themselves in that way, but this is the approach from whence we get ideas like, "We should do <policy> because all the bigger nations do it that way." But that's not actually how a large nation behaves... a large nation acts in its own best interest and that of its citizens (unless you're North Korea, but we can find better role models than that). To give an example: when the Civil Service was proposed, the initial proposal included automatically opening an empty Civil Service post for every Cabinet office. When I looked at that, I saw that it would be years and years before those posts were filled (and indeed, every single Civil Service office remains empty) and that it would look terrible for us to have a dozen empty job slots. It would make us look inactive and understaffed. And of course, it would have just been generally silly to open up a bunch of offices we might not ever need. So one of the things I fought hard to get was that offices would only be opened as needed. There was some push-back on this, with at least one critic pointing out that "real nations" have civil service officials in every office. But to me, that was CC Derivatism... thoughtless mimicry of larger nations. Real countries act in their own best interest, and so I fought hard to get the bill changed. I am proud to be both a fan of the monarchy and a fan of derivatism.
|
|
Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
|
Post by Ian Plätschisch on Feb 13, 2016 7:39:46 GMT -6
Now it is time for closing statements. Sir Davinescu will make his first, followed by Senator da Lhiun.
|
|
Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
|
Post by Ian Plätschisch on Feb 14, 2016 8:48:20 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Feb 14, 2016 9:13:19 GMT -6
Okay, taking a quick break from laying out this week's edition of Beric'ht Talossan...
I'd like to thank our moderator, Ian Plätschisch, who's done a stellar job as usual. I'd also like to thank Senator da Lhiun. I might disagree with him about many things, but he's a great guy and excellent to work with.
Maritiimi-Maxhestians, I have fought for you, time and time again. For ten years, I have been an active member of the government of Maritiimi-Maxhestic, working to advance our province from a state of absolute inactivity to its current proud self. We have active political traditions, a constitution, a body of law, and an important cultural heritage... these things are no accident. One of the bright spots of activity this past term was discussion and debate over prospective mergers: I thought of the idea and led the charge. For years, I have been arguing that Maritiimi-Maxhestic should rise up and take back what's rightfully our territory. Either we succeed and Maritiiimi-Maxhestic becomes even more awesome (if that's even possible), or we fail because our efforts have spurred other provinces into motion.
On the national stage, I will continue to fight for your interests. When Reunision went down, I drew a line in the sand and said that we would not simply cede half of our territory, including the part with virtually our whole Cestour population. We were as eager as everyone for Reunision, but I held firm to our principles and insisted on guarding the interests of Maritiimi-Maxhestic. You can trust me to always be willing to take a step back and consider the situation from first principles, watching our for our province.
You know you can trust me. You know I know what I'm doing. You know I have an insuperable record in our province. And you know I'll always be here to fight for you.
Maritiimi-Maxhestic, I ask for your vote.
|
|
|
Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Feb 15, 2016 2:30:26 GMT -6
Estimats citaxhiens da Mharitiimi-Mhaxhestic,
I shall not be as verbose as I always am; I promise that, should I become your Senator, democracy and moderate Monarchism will reign the office of the Maritiimi-Maxhestic Senäts. Count on me to heed your advice, and request your advice regularly! I am a very approachable guy, and it would be an honour to serve you again.
I, too, thank the moderator Ian Plätschisch for his excellent job as moderator: it was a pleasure being here! And I would like to thank the citizens of Maritiimi-Machestic for having given me their trust to be their Senator.
I hope you will find that I am worth renewing that trust. Let us keep Maritiimi-Maxhestic a place where legislative decisions are made fairly, and in consideration of every person and part of the Kingdom, which they affect!
|
|