Proclamation of Amendments

[Françal Ian Lux]

Jun 3, 2015 17:17:42 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

Indeed. Queen Elizabeth, by law, can veto any law she dares to. Although, it's a power NEVER used and it would be a terrible idea if she ever did. Instead, she usually alerts the Prime Minister of her disagreements with an Act so he can pull it from vote (de-Clark it) or make amendments based on the Queens recommendation. Behind closed doors, the UK monarch is waaaay more powerful than anyone cares to imagine.

I'm well-aware of the potential powers of Constitutional monarchs, but I'd much prefer the monarchy to explicitly have PURELY ceremonial and advisory roles.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Jun 3, 2015 17:11:45 GMT -6 Istefan Perþonest said:

I didn't predict this, but, that was in part because when I saw the amendment on my ballot (I admit I've not been following Talossan politics particularly closely in recent times) I had actually assumed that, since the amendment touched on the powers of the King, there had been a (non-public) discussion between the King and Government. After all, even the British monarchy retains, to use the phrasing of Bagehot's The English Constitution, "three rights — the right to be consulted, the right to encourage, the right to warn."

The King doesn't respond to any Government emails which he doesn't like the look of. It's called a "pocket veto". He's only available because he wants to be available.

And with his chess metaphor, not only does he show that he sees Talossa as a game, but that he's playing in the game; exactly what any decent monarchist assured me wouldn't happen. John, you are no longer qualified to be a constitutional monarch. GTFO.

[Eðo Grischun]

Jun 3, 2015 17:21:53 GMT -6 Françal Ian Lux said:

Jun 3, 2015 17:17:42 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

Indeed. Queen Elizabeth, by law, can veto any law she dares to. Although, it's a power NEVER used and it would be a terrible idea if she ever did. Instead, she usually alerts the Prime Minister of her disagreements with an Act so he can pull it from vote (de-Clark it) or make amendments based on the Queens recommendation. Behind closed doors, the UK monarch is waaaay more powerful than anyone cares to imagine.

I'm well-aware of the potential powers of Constitutional monarchs, but I'd much prefer the monarchy to explicitly have PURELY ceremonial and advisory roles.

As would I. As would I.

I'm just pointing out that constitutional monarchs have more power than some people think they should. They derive their power from the written constitution. Just for interesting discussion sakes really. *shrug*

[Ian Plätschisch]

I haven't read much of the Organic Law, and so was shocked to see that the King had acted Organically, but that is on me. I am not mad at King John personally for using this power.

What I am very alarmed at is that this power actually exists, and everyone I have heard agrees that it should not. So lets stop bickering about "secret powers" and actually fix the problem with an amendment that replaces "may" with "shall"

But the fundamental problem remains, would King John veto an amendment that strips him of his ability to veto amendments?  I asked him this directly a few pages back, but I didn't hear an answer. If he would strike such an amendment down, we have direly serious problems

[Eðo Grischun]

Jun 3, 2015 17:35:20 GMT -6 Ian Plätschisch said:

I haven't read much of the Organic Law, and so was shocked to see that the King had acted Organically, but that is on me. I am not mad at King John personally for using this power.

What I am very alarmed at is that this power actually exists, and everyone I have heard agrees that it should not. So lets stop bickering about "secret powers" and actually fix the problem with an amendment that replaces "may" with "shall"

But the fundamental problem remains, would King John veto an amendment that strips him of his ability to veto amendments?  I asked him this directly a few pages back, but I didn't hear an answer. If he would strike such an amendment down, we have direly serious problems

Yep. We won't know till we try. All the back and forth is just gravy.

[Gaglhen Fortaleça]

I have just finished A Nation Sundered (great read by the way) and this reminds me a lot of the confusion during the Halloween Crisis only more civil and with less namecalling, of course it's equally confusing to keep up with events now as much as it was back then (at least it seems that way)

[E.S. Bornatfiglheu]

Jun 3, 2015 17:44:36 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

Jun 3, 2015 17:35:20 GMT -6 Ian Plätschisch said:

I haven't read much of the Organic Law, and so was shocked to see that the King had acted Organically, but that is on me. I am not mad at King John personally for using this power.

What I am very alarmed at is that this power actually exists, and everyone I have heard agrees that it should not. So lets stop bickering about "secret powers" and actually fix the problem with an amendment that replaces "may" with "shall"

But the fundamental problem remains, would King John veto an amendment that strips him of his ability to veto amendments?  I asked him this directly a few pages back, but I didn't hear an answer. If he would strike such an amendment down, we have direly serious problems

Yep. We won't know till we try. All the back and forth is just gravy.

I would like to note for the record that I am a fan of gravy.

[Eðo Grischun]

Jun 3, 2015 18:05:52 GMT -6 E.S. Bornatfiglheu said:

Jun 3, 2015 17:44:36 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

Yep. We won't know till we try. All the back and forth is just gravy.

I would like to note for the record that I am a fan of gravy.

Depends on the actual meal, for me.

[E.S. Bornatfiglheu]

Jun 3, 2015 18:19:18 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

Jun 3, 2015 18:05:52 GMT -6 E.S. Bornatfiglheu said:

I would like to note for the record that I am a fan of gravy.

Depends on the actual meal, for me.

Fair enough.  I just polished off a classic of the American South called "Country Fried Steak" with sawmill gravy (which is a white gravy from meat drippings).

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Jun 3, 2015 18:03:50 GMT -6 Gaglhen Fortaleça said:

I have just finished A Nation Sundered (great read by the way) and this reminds me a lot of the confusion during the Halloween Crisis only more civil and with less namecalling, of course it's equally confusing to keep up with events now as much as it was back then (at least it seems that way)

I have my problems with King John, today, but King Robert was a sadistic paranoiac who wouldn't have even let his political opponents get into government, much less threaten the monarchy. He would actually ring up his political opponents and yell "WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO RUIN MY LIFE?"

[Gaglhen Fortaleça]

Geez

[Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun]

Jun 3, 2015 18:50:21 GMT -6 Gaglhen Fortaleça said:

Geez

Yeah, I am learning the Ge'ez alphabet at the moment, too. Very difficult that!

[Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h]

Jun 3, 2015 16:45:54 GMT -6 King John said:

One day almost half a century ago, I was playing chess and had occasion to capture my opponent's pawn en passant. He was outraged that I hadn't warned him about the possibility that his attacking pawn could be taken that way. For my part, I was sort of appalled that he played chess without knowing the rules. As I remember, he got mad and left when I refused to take my move back.

No, Talossa's no game, but practical politics *does* have elements in common with games. Like, for instance, rules.

— John R

It's so easy, John, to hide behind the rules, which you obey to the letter, when the real burning question remains: Why did you believe that amendment was not a good idea for the Kingdom? Just because it curtails Royal Powers makes no sense. Why is it, then, a good thing to *not* curtail Royal Powers?

You are demonstrating, sir, the sort of stubborn legalistic mindset that helped to keep Talossa divided for so long. And by not giving the people of the Kingdom an explanation that actually is comprehensible as to your action, you are hurting your position as monarch and the monarchy you hold so dear, and you are giving ammunition to all your detractors.

Miestrâ is absolutely correct. You are the ZRT's chief recruiting officer, King John. Welcome aboard. :-)

[Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h]

Jun 3, 2015 18:50:21 GMT -6 Gaglhen Fortaleça said:

Geez

Ben was special. Brilliant. but special.

[Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h]

Jun 3, 2015 18:29:59 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Jun 3, 2015 18:03:50 GMT -6 Gaglhen Fortaleça said:

I have just finished A Nation Sundered (great read by the way) and this reminds me a lot of the confusion during the Halloween Crisis only more civil and with less namecalling, of course it's equally confusing to keep up with events now as much as it was back then (at least it seems that way)

I have my problems with King John, today, but King Robert was a sadistic paranoiac who wouldn't have even let his political opponents get into government, much less threaten the monarchy. He would actually ring up his political opponents and yell "WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO RUIN MY LIFE?"

You told me once, Daph, Ben called up Charles S., and in the midst of the conversation made Charles cry. Yes, he made him cry!