Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Jul 27, 2014 19:18:58 GMT -6
So you didnt misunderstood the question then...
What perverse effects? Its not like there werent any people on the list left. You realise you're basically accepting RUMP arguments against the electoral reform we both support right? Btw, I could have forgive this mistake and still think itd be a pretty good idea to go for another coalition with the ZRT. But the way you spit your venom out of nowhere, but cant handle criticism when its right on target, thats just wrong. Epic would be foolish to apologise for giving legitimate criticism. Instead, I very much hope that you come to your senses and not ruin the chances of future cooperation.
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Jul 27, 2014 19:24:19 GMT -6
Epic, think very, very carefully about what happens to politicians who burn bridges like this with their political allies. I am not a liar. I take that as a personal insult. You will withdraw and apologise if you wish me to help you any further with your duties in Cabinet. I really don't like you threatening me, Miestrâ. I did not want to hurt, or insult you - but I am still baffled that you can simply "reject an argument". It feels like a child, which persists that what it wears is blue, when really, it is red.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Jul 27, 2014 19:25:00 GMT -6
As for this not wanting another centrist party thing, I have on multiple occasions in the past, including very recently been very encouraging of other centrist parties to participate, publicly and privately. And it isnt the LIB I was criticising either, it was the ZRT.
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Post by Sevastáin Pinátsch on Jul 27, 2014 19:33:53 GMT -6
Well, fine, that's what Mximo did with his seats. He gave them to me as ZRT leader. And then they were mine to do with as I pleased under current law. PROBLEM? No, none at all. We just wanted you to make it clear that whatever principles have only have weight when you can use them to club someone else who doesn't uphold them, whereas you're perfectly free to abandon them if they're inconvenient and there's nothing legally binding that would require you to follow through on your promise. I admire you for your unabashedly self-serving, not-guaranteed, terms-and-conditions-subject-to-change-at-any-time approach policy making. Your flip-flop pragmatism clearly trumps our inconvenient preoccupation with ethics and voter accountability any day of the week.
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Jul 27, 2014 20:00:00 GMT -6
Well, fine, that's what Mximo did with his seats. He gave them to me as ZRT leader. And then they were mine to do with as I pleased under current law. PROBLEM? No, none at all. We just wanted you to make it clear that whatever principles have only have weight when you can use them to club someone else who doesn't uphold them, whereas you're perfectly free to abandon them if they're inconvenient and there's nothing legally binding that would require you to follow through on your promise. I admire you for your unabashedly self-serving, not-guaranteed, terms-and-conditions-subject-to-change-at-any-time approach policy making. Your flip-flop pragmatism clearly trumps our inconvenient preoccupation with ethics and voter accountability any day of the week. Such a beautiful post, I had to read it over and over again.
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Post by Iustì Carlüs Canun on Jul 27, 2014 21:16:51 GMT -6
Dirt? Check. Water hose? Check.
YAY, it's election season! :-P
Also, YAY, I'm not running the hutschind elections!
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 27, 2014 21:41:55 GMT -6
Hey Iústi, still disappointed it wasn't me who faked all those citizens? You're pretty hypocritical about slinging dirt.
But seriously: the ZRT's principle is "parties should tell the voters who will get seats after the election". Only the ModRads seem to think this includes "no seats shall be given to existing MCs who join the party after the election, and anyone who leaves a party must have ALL their seats taken off them". That's only a ModRad principle, and a dumb one. I would oppose any attempt to write this into law.
Remember this, casual readers. The ModRads are abusing me personally and coming close to driving me out of the caretaker government - and any interest in working with them after the election - because I gave one additional seat to an existing MC with four seats who was elected for another party. This is the only thing they have to beat me for.
I still await a personal apology for calling me a liar. Doesn't have to be in public, but if you hate me this much then it's ridiculous to expect to work together. This is nothing but revenge because I spoke what everyone knew to be the truth about Glüc's performance as Seneschál. I don't tell lies to support my allies. That's a RUMP thing to do.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 27, 2014 21:50:28 GMT -6
That I had to treat Mximo differently from any other ZRT MC for the rest of the Cosâ. No good reason for that. No. In an electoral reform, seats would be held by the MCs, not party leaders. Then Carlüs would have kept all his ZRT seats, and I would have no seats to give to Mximo. So none of this wouldn't have happened. So your argument makes no sense, and I'm increasingly suspecting it's because non-Anglophones have missed some subtlety. "Spitting venom". Right. Telling the truth, telling what everyone knows to be the truth about your performance as Seneschál, is spitting venom? Or are you referring to something else? This is deeply sad. You've admitted that this is nothing but revenge for not defending you when you don't deserve defending... after I defended you for six months. Thank goodness that there is at least one ModRad leader who has not joined in on this RUMP-style "defend our party comrades at all costs" gang-up. I look forward to speaking to him about future co-operation, if the rest of you are prepared to double down on "Miestrâ = liar".
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 27, 2014 21:53:31 GMT -6
I'm not sure Iusti's comments in private to a friend are really the same thing as a public demonstration of why the coalition government didn't get much done.
I guess there might be a little hypocrisy to be seen here, though. Remember when the ZRT accepted seats just after their formation, even though they hadn't gotten any votes yet? The huge importance of ironclad party lists sure seems to be flexible on every single occasion that it's convenient. The ZRT wants seats? Eh, sure, special exception. A new party wants some ZRT seats? Sure, why not, another special exception.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 28, 2014 0:16:08 GMT -6
And all those "special exceptions" will cease to be after proper electoral reform. Seats will then belong to the MC for the rest of the Cosâ term, with no "reversion to party leaders". Then neither of these "weird situations" would have developed.
Public service reminder: The ModRads are calling me a liar and throwing personal insults because of my distribution of one seat. One seat. HALF A VOTE, for Pete's sake.
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Jul 28, 2014 3:19:36 GMT -6
Public service reminder: The ModRads are calling me a liar and throwing personal insults because of my distribution of one seat. One seat. HALF A VOTE, for Pete's sake. In the MRPT's name, I simply reject this argument thrown upon us.
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jul 28, 2014 3:23:30 GMT -6
Public service reminder: The ModRads are calling me a liar and throwing personal insults because of my distribution of one seat. One seat. HALF A VOTE, for Pete's sake. In the MRPT's name, I simply reject this argument thrown upon us. That is essentially what this has been about though. I get that it's a very important issue for you guys, but that doesn't change the fact that this is what the argument has been about.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Jul 28, 2014 3:51:56 GMT -6
Public service reminder: The ModRads are calling me a liar and throwing personal insults because of my distribution of one seat. One seat. HALF A VOTE, for Pete's sake. Eeh, no. We're calling you a liar, because you lied about it. If you had distributed the seat to Mximo and you would have admitted that this means breaking a promise, then I wouldn't have called you a liar.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 28, 2014 5:22:49 GMT -6
If you disagree with Glüc, you're a liar. Right. There is no arguing about this, this is simply an insult. How do you ever expect to work with me again? Even Sir Alexandreu at the heighth of his villainy never accused me of that.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Jul 28, 2014 8:02:38 GMT -6
And all those "special exceptions" will cease to be after proper electoral reform. Seats will then belong to the MC for the rest of the Cosâ term, with no "reversion to party leaders". Then neither of these "weird situations" would have developed. Public service reminder: The ModRads are calling me a liar and throwing personal insults because of my distribution of one seat. One seat. HALF A VOTE, for Pete's sake. Sorry to butt in here but I'm confused. I thought under the law that seats assigned to any MC belong to that MC and they can only be reassigned if that MC resigns them. Maybe I'm not following the conversation?
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