Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Oct 31, 2013 3:02:25 GMT -6
They are intended to roughly parallel that, but they also reflect that there can be a special shared heritage or culture within a province itself, and it would be unfortunate if physically moving meant you had to leave that heritage or culture that you might treasure. Several of our provinces have unique cultures. Your own province of Fiova, for example, has a strong heritage because so many of its citizens were members of the former Republic. I supported your demand to keep that heritage together, rather than splitting everyone up to strictly match their geography. Provincial assignments should find the golden mean between making citizens a part of a new and geographic community, and enforcing that organization with an iron fist. We can roughly match people up, without displacing them from their cultural home against their will. Against their will? We're not talking about the Trail of Tears or the Nazi/Soviet population transfers. I'd rather still be in California, but I lost a job there and found one in DC. So it was indeed unfortunate that physically moving meant I had to leave that heritage or culture (and extended family) that I treasure, but that's the choice I made. That's real life. |
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Oct 31, 2013 8:01:58 GMT -6
They are intended to roughly parallel that, but they also reflect that there can be a special shared heritage or culture within a province itself, and it would be unfortunate if physically moving meant you had to leave that heritage or culture that you might treasure. Several of our provinces have unique cultures. Your own province of Fiova, for example, has a strong heritage because so many of its citizens were members of the former Republic. I supported your demand to keep that heritage together, rather than splitting everyone up to strictly match their geography. Provincial assignments should find the golden mean between making citizens a part of a new and geographic community, and enforcing that organization with an iron fist. We can roughly match people up, without displacing them from their cultural home against their will. Against their will? We're not talking about the Trail of Tears or the Nazi/Soviet population transfers. I'd rather still be in California, but I lost a job there and found one in DC. So it was indeed unfortunate that physically moving meant I had to leave that heritage or culture (and extended family) that I treasure, but that's the choice I made. That's real life. Let me also come out of the province closet and state that I personally would like to see the creation of Fiôvâ as a transitional thing. I would be very unhappy if it remains "The Republican Province". Provinces should not be connected to ideologies. No, it was a great stepping stone and tool for Reunison to proceed smoothly. |
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Oct 31, 2013 19:40:36 GMT -6
1) But provinces have traditionally been connected to ideologies. Vuode as "a bastion of Tory reaction", and Maritiimi-Maxhestic as a sort of "authoritarian theme park" were just those in the Madison era.
2) Fiôvâ should certainly not be the "Republican Province" in the sense of "a bastion of Defencist/Peculiarist radicalism". But I would love it to be the reviênsadéir province, or at least the provinces founded by the reviênsadéirs, and to perpetuate the cultural heritage of the "other Talossa". Whether our collective future is monarchist or Republican, I don't want our temporary "fork" of Talossan culture to disappear down the memory hole, as some former Ossies think happened to the cultural heritage of the GDR.
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Nov 1, 2013 2:00:58 GMT -6
1) But provinces have traditionally been connected to ideologies. Vuode as "a bastion of Tory reaction", and Maritiimi-Maxhestic as a sort of "authoritarian theme park" were just those in the Madison era. Not exactly an argument that convinces me!  2) Fiôvâ should certainly not be the "Republican Province" in the sense of "a bastion of Defencist/Peculiarist radicalism". But I would love it to be the reviênsadéir province, or at least the provinces founded by the reviênsadéirs, and to perpetuate the cultural heritage of the "other Talossa". Whether our collective future is monarchist or Republican, I don't want our temporary "fork" of Talossan culture to disappear down the memory hole, as some former Ossies think happened to the cultural heritage of the GDR. But I wouldn't want that heritage to be tied to a province. Provinces are geography. Republicanism and the the glorious Republic are ideology and history. |
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Post by D. N. Vercáriâ on Nov 3, 2013 6:29:45 GMT -6
The only Talossan province that is pure geography is Pengöpäts, because there are no (or not enough) people to create traditions, ideologies, history.
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Nov 3, 2013 7:20:07 GMT -6
(...) Provinces are geography. (...) If provinces are geography, so are countries. If countries are geography, so are, then, continents. And if, in turn, continents are mere geography, then so is the Earth. And according unto your belief, traditions and heritage should not be bound to geography. Very well, then I demand that every person in the world shall have an igloo-building heritage and ritual! Also, they shall be accustomed to wearing a Nazar Boncuğu (evil-eye amulet), since traditions are not geography-bound! And I ask for everyone to wear a Bindi on the forehead! I believe that I have made my point clear. |
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Nov 3, 2013 12:17:41 GMT -6
If provinces are geography, so are countries. If countries are geography, so are, then, continents. And if, in turn, continents are mere geography, then so is the Earth. And according unto your belief, traditions and heritage should not be bound to geography. Very well, then I demand that every person in the world shall have an igloo-building heritage and ritual! Also, they shall be accustomed to wearing a Nazar Boncuğu (evil-eye amulet), since traditions are not geography-bound! And I ask for everyone to wear a Bindi on the forehead! I believe that I have made my point clear. Not terribly clear, I'm afraid. It is self-evident that traditions are not in fact geography-bound. I've seen plenty of people wearing bindis in my area (northern Virginia). That does not mean that I live in an exclave of India in the United States. It means that people can leave a country (or province) where particular traditions predominate and bring their traditions with them. |
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Nov 3, 2013 13:44:32 GMT -6
(...) Provinces are geography. (...) If provinces are geography, so are countries. If countries are geography, so are, then, continents. And if, in turn, continents are mere geography, then so is the Earth. And according unto your belief, traditions and heritage should not be bound to geography. Very well, then I demand that every person in the world shall have an igloo-building heritage and ritual! Also, they shall be accustomed to wearing a Nazar Boncuğu (evil-eye amulet), since traditions are not geography-bound! And I ask for everyone to wear a Bindi on the forehead! I believe that I have made my point clear. Tried to, but more suggested that you seem to believe that parts of a American town can be compared to continents, Analogies don't necessarily scale like that. |
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Nov 4, 2013 17:13:37 GMT -6
I think I might support a stronger tie between geography and provincial assignment. Real provinces are also pretty much bound by geography, which also means that physically moving from one province to another usually means becoming a citizen of the new province as well. This does not mean that provinces can't have their own culture and traditions.
Many current citizens are currently a citizen of a province other than the one they would normally be assigned to.
I can think of a number of reasons for this
- Reunision and the creation of Fiôvâ
- Changing assignment boundaries
- Talossans moving without changing boundaries
- The growth limit on the largest province
It might make sense to put everyone in the right province again, but I can imagine many Talossans would object to changing province. The results would be rather drastic. Still an interesting option. Definitely worth debating.
A more moderate idea would be to remove the growth limit, stop changing assignment boundaries once and for all (or change them one last time) and from now one let moving across assignment boundaries result in changing provinces, so provinces will gradually become more in line with geography. Of course, this would probably create rather unequal provinces.
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Post by D. N. Vercáriâ on Nov 5, 2013 4:45:14 GMT -6
We should certainly not forget that in most cases we are talking about an assignment to provinces, as many of the citizens of Talossa are not actually living in Talossa or the GTA.
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Nov 5, 2013 5:12:29 GMT -6
We should definitely not forget that. But to me that's why it is of paramount importance to stress geographical proximity also in assignments, so we don't lose the little geography we have in the system.
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Post by Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h on Nov 20, 2013 1:43:13 GMT -6
Nope! Not even if you move there permanently! Because, you see, the provinces are just make-believe clubs these days and no longer try to reflect any geographical reality. That is unfortunate. Right now, it would be like Texas being a club instead of a territory. |
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Post by D. N. Vercáriâ on Nov 20, 2013 4:33:03 GMT -6
Because, you see, the provinces are just make-believe clubs these days and no longer try to reflect any geographical reality. That is unfortunate. Right now, it would be like Texas being a club instead of a territory. What, Texas isn't a club? Errr.... Of course Texas is a territory, but there's also a distinctive Texan culture, I'd bet. Weren't Talossa's provinces supposed to be an equivalent to the States that make up the United States, or at least an equivalent to Canada's Provinces, which are also having their own cultural assets and peculiarities? Does that mean, all these entities are some sort of megaclubs only because people who are living on and in territories tend to develope a regional identity? |
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Nov 20, 2013 10:14:07 GMT -6
That is unfortunate. Right now, it would be like Texas being a club instead of a territory. What, Texas isn't a club? Errr.... Of course Texas is a territory, but there's also a distinctive Texan culture, I'd bet. Weren't Talossa's provinces supposed to be an equivalent to the States that make up the United States, or at least an equivalent to Canada's Provinces, which are also having their own cultural assets and peculiarities? Does that mean, all these entities are some sort of megaclubs only because people who are living on and in territories tend to develope a regional identity? Yes, Texas has developed a unique Texan culture. It's not as if the House of Representatives sat down and decided that everyone who likes barbecue, rodeos, and tequila be a Texan and be assigned to Texas regardless of where they live. |
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Owen Edwards
Puisne Justice
Posts: 1,400
Talossan Since: 12-8-2007
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Post by Owen Edwards on Nov 20, 2013 11:43:19 GMT -6
Rather an S:reu Anglatzara leaves implied, the purpose of provinces at this point is a little unclear. Are they our best geographical indicators, encouraging community amongst the nations of that area? Well, if that's the case, reform is needed; Ataturk needs to lose the Celtic fringe to Cézembre, for instance. Moving geographically should lead to a change in assignment.
But if they're just culture biodomes, there to get people together doing the politics thing and "making" a culture of their own - then provincial assignment as it stands begins to look a little shaky.
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"Ceterum censeo republicam proclamandum esse."
