Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 19, 2013 22:23:26 GMT -6
In the next Ziu election, vote for Senators and parties pledged to repeal the What's the Difference Act What's kept those parties from doing that so far? We already have pledges in their (ZRT and MRPT) current platforms. Maybe the Citizens should vote out the parties that pledged, but did not deliver?
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Jul 20, 2013 1:20:17 GMT -6
Whoever petitioned for whitelisting was either really clueless or horribly scheming. What a thoroughly unhelpful thing to do. I understand you, Tim.
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Post by D. N. Vercáriâ on Jul 20, 2013 2:19:07 GMT -6
If it wasn't the government's idea to whitelist Eurusia, then it has been a completely insensible and incapable and cowardly reaction to whitelist said micronation at the first request. It's not supposed to be the government's initiative. Someone has to petition. That's how the law is written. So according to rumours the Seneschal's wife petitioned, and the Seneschal reacted immediately. Honi soit qui mal y pense.
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Jul 20, 2013 2:22:01 GMT -6
Admiral, very same blind government that pretends to fix issues with PDs like Mussolini Hear (read?) me: may Tim's renounciation be a warning for you, Conservatives, because the air of changement is blowing across Talossa! Really? You compare the current government to the Fascist Italian government from 1922 - 1943? You really went there? When do you play the "Hitler" card? The "Hitler" card is reserved to Miestra, sorry. And please, read carefully: I have criticized only the usage of PDs as a way to enact legislation. You don't like the word "Mussolini"? Change it with "Monti", so. I'm not stooping low. How do you think I'm "desperate" for power? Where do you deduce my "presumed lust for power"?
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Jul 20, 2013 2:22:51 GMT -6
Whoever petitioned for whitelisting was either really clueless or horribly scheming. What a completely moronic thing to do. I understand you, Tim. If actually anyone petitioned for whitelisting.
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Jul 20, 2013 2:26:35 GMT -6
the very same blind government that pretends to fix issues with PDs like Mussolini and at the same times pulls even the Oppositions' leg with the endless tale "Why don't you write a bill about it?". Is that really unreasonable? Which party called for writing a bill about it in its platform: the RUMP or the MRPT? Which party would you expect to write such a bill, the one that called for it or the one that did not? Do I have to point you towards one of the hundreds of posts when Deet/Miestra/CCX/me explains that such a bill has already been proposed but it failed, and proposing another one right now would only be a loss of time? Ah: the bill was called for AND written by the MRPT, if this is what you want to know.
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Post by Béneditsch Ardpresteir, O.SPM. on Jul 20, 2013 3:23:40 GMT -6
From the office of the Attorney General __________________________
Da l'Óifisch del Avocat Xheneral
I, Béneditsch Ardpresteir, Avocat Xheneral del Regipäts Talossán, with all duly vested authority and stuff, do hereby and forthwith declare that ~ I have no regret in saying that the directive by the Seneschal purporting to be the "Whitelisting of The People's Republic of Eurusia" was passed in haste and without following the procedure as established by law. Hence the above is nothing but a personal document and memo issued from the Office of the Seneschal. At best it could be taken into consideration while actually discussing about 'whitelisting' of The People's Republic of Erusia. It is to be remembered that there is no statutory law - 37RZ22 and thus any directive issued under mis-information has no significance. For the convenience of all the relevant provisions of the statutory law 37RZ2 is appended below, and which has not been complied with in its proper form - "8. Any Talossan citizen who desires to belong to an organisation but fears that the organisation falls within the definition of "micronation" contained in clause 5 of this Act may petition to have the organisation listed on a whitelist maintained by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The whitelist shall include organisations which have been the subject of such petitions and participation in which has been determined by the Minister of Foreign Affairs not to be incompatible with Talossan citizenship, in consultation with the Attorney General and with the approval of the Seneschál. 9. The provisions of clause 6 shall not apply to membership in any organisation contained on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs whitelist, and inclusion of any organisation on the whitelist shall not be construed as a recognition of sovereignty or statehood by the Kingdom of Talossa."In view of the above, I issue the following directives in the interest of justice - - I would request those who have been 'charged and notified' to present their opposition in the proposed time frame, or else proceeding as intimated may be initiated against them.
- Senator Ián B. Anglatzarâ and Minister Chelli dal Nordselva is called upon to explain their level of involvement and interest in The People's Republic of Eurusia.
- The Chancery is further requested not to proceed with any documents in regard to any of those who have been 'charged and notified' without the clearance of the office of the Attorney General.
Done under my hand and seal, this day the 20th day of July, in the Year 2013, of the independence of Talossa the thirty-fourth, and the seventh in the reign of our gracious Sovereign John. Béneditsch ArdpresteirAdvocate General
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 20, 2013 3:31:25 GMT -6
*sigh* Cresti, if we proposed the bill to tear down the Berlin Wall and stop driving people like the Admiral and the former Home Minister out, Alex, Mick and their buddies would just vote it down, for - and I repeat this and challenge anyone to convincingly rebut it - no better reason than this was how Talossa was when they found it in 2005 and they can' t imagine things any other way. This is where kneejerk conservatism gets you.
The bill for repeal will be proposed the instant that a majority of MCs and Senators are willing to vote for it.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jul 20, 2013 7:21:35 GMT -6
Do I have to point you towards one of the hundreds of posts when Deet/Miestra/CCX/me explains that such a bill has already been proposed but it failed, and proposing another one right now would only be a loss of time? Ah: the bill was called for AND written by the MRPT, if this is what you want to know. *sigh* Cresti, if we proposed the bill to tear down the Berlin Wall and stop driving people like the Admiral and the former Home Minister out, Alex, Mick and their buddies would just vote it down, for - and I repeat this and challenge anyone to convincingly rebut it - no better reason than this was how Talossa was when they found it in 2005 and they can' t imagine things any other way. This is where kneejerk conservatism gets you. The bill for repeal will be proposed the instant that a majority of MCs and Senators are willing to vote for it. But a majority of MCs did vote for the bill, and failed by only one vote in the Senäts. And rather than rejecting it in kneejerk fashion, Senator Preston provided practical suggestions that he thought would improve the bill so as to gain his support. In any event, a mere repeal would not have been enough for the Admiral. He was quite insistent that not only must the policy should change to suit his preferences, but it must be made impossible for anyone to ever change it back again.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 20, 2013 7:44:44 GMT -6
*sigh* Cresti, if we proposed the bill to tear down the Berlin Wall and stop driving people like the Admiral and the former Home Minister out, Alex, Mick and their buddies would just vote it down, for - and I repeat this and challenge anyone to convincingly rebut it - no better reason than this was how Talossa was when they found it in 2005 and they can' t imagine things any other way. This is where kneejerk conservatism gets you. The bill for repeal will be proposed the instant that a majority of MCs and Senators are willing to vote for it. But a majority of MCs did vote for the bill, and failed by only one vote in the Senäts. And rather than rejecting it in kneejerk fashion, Senator Preston provided practical suggestions that he thought would improve the bill so as to gain his support. In any event, a mere repeal would not have been enough for the Admiral. He was quite insistent that not only must the policy should change to suit his preferences, but it must be made impossible for anyone to ever change it back again. Miestra: Consider yourself rebutted: This is how, and why I voted: 44RZ24 - Upon reviewing the wording of the Act, I have some concerns as it is written. Section 2 refers to a "Black List". It is vague as to what would qualify for a Micro-nation to be placed on this list. I wish it would specify what are the triggers to "Black List" a Micro-nation. Sections 5, 10, and 11 refer to "Criminal Act" , but it does not include the penalty or punishment for being convicted of violating this Act. I find this troubling. If we are going to declare something as Criminal, we must also describe the results of being convicted of the same. Sections 7, 8 and 10 refer to "Offices" held in a Micro-nation. I have a two-fold concern with this. One: "Office" is a very vague term - is it an appointed Office? Elected Office? A governmental office can run the gambit from city council to Leader of the Nation. Two: I feel there might be a conflict of interest if a Citizen of Talossa holds an "Office" in Talossa, and an undefined "Office" in a Micro-nation. Finally, there are numerous spelling errors in the Act. A spelling error in the wrong place can get an Act thrown out in a Cort case. Because of all of these concerns, I have no option but to vote : Con. So, your "instant" has been here since January 20th. Please post your Bill for repeal immediately.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 20, 2013 14:01:48 GMT -6
Mick, you agree with the ZRT that the ban on dual citizenship should be lifted. Simple answer Y/N? If the answer is Y, then get in touch with Carlüs who's busy drafting a new repeal bill as we speak. We don't want to find out - too late - that it's once again got errors.
It's good that we do seem to have a broad consensus now. But the political points I have to make are:
1) we live in a country where the head of Government can rule by decree - the PD system. The Seneschál could have abolished or amended the What's the Difference Act with the stroke of the pen. Why was it only the Opposition's job to put bills forward?
2) the opposition parties - Defencists and ModRads and Peculiarists, in principle - were against the Berlin Wall of Micronations before it cost us two prominent citizens.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Jul 20, 2013 14:43:35 GMT -6
I agree that with the stroke of a pen I could have eliminated the law entirely. However, put yourself for a moment in my position. Would you rather I rule by decree or try to let the legislative process do what it is intended to do? You might also note that I'm trying to reform the PD laws busy making it easier for the Ziu to act on them. Would it not seem odd to you if while attempting some form of PD reform if I also decided to act unilaterally to rule by decree?
I clumsily attempted to buy the kingdom the time we needed to reform micro national laws. My government absolutely did not want two citizens to leave and I did everything I could think of to keep them.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Jul 20, 2013 14:44:32 GMT -6
Oh and by the way I did amend What's the Difference in response to the findings of the magistrates court.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 20, 2013 19:12:49 GMT -6
Mick, you agree with the ZRT that the ban on dual citizenship should be lifted. Simple answer Y/N? If the answer is Y, then get in touch with Carlüs who's busy drafting a new repeal bill as we speak. We don't want to find out - too late - that it's once again got errors. Who said I haven't already? (Smiles)
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Post by Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on Jul 20, 2013 20:27:32 GMT -6
Mick, it would just be easier, if you agree with the said proposal to speak with Carlus about the Bill he is writting up(the one Miestra mentioned). And yes you may think that the ZRT do not want to resolve this. But they do. Also Mick, it is difficult to get a peice of legislation on this that will pass the consensus of the majority, its all good and well to talk but if anyone trys to act on changing anthing major, from my observation, the RUMP party in generall seems to oppose of any major changes. So it is difficult to know what or might not actually pass the Ziu, and just because the Opposition doesnt propose things all the time, maybe you might think that just because we are not doing much at one specific time, doesnt meab we've given up on our platform. But perhaps the Opposition is being strategic as to not waste time if something is introduced too early
Also i as you do you know all the laws off by heart? With the specifics? If not its unfair to expect people to fully remember everything in Org and Statutary law. I proved yesterday that i have read the Laws of the land. However if i make a point baced on what i remeber of something ive read but did not have the time to fully check before hand, and i was mistaken, does that make me ignorant if the law? Just because one makes mistakes it does not make them ignorant. As you have said on a few occasions. I respect you as a person and i think some of the stuff you say can be usefull. But i strongly object with your constant attacks on others, i know you think your trying to help etc, however it does come off rude sometimes and steriotypical aswell.
Please dont take this the wrong way, im not having a go. But i am saying perhaps you could be a bit kinder to others and show a little more respect. Or if you feel you cant be respectfull or constructive then id ask you dont say anthing incase that worsens the situation. Im not saying i condone anyone being rude to yourself either and i ask the same to others. I may not have always been calm in saying some of what i say, but i never have the intention of belittling someone, although sometimes i may say a comment which seems like that. I dont mean anything i say to offend anyone, i always try to be polite and respectfull. (Athough i do appologise for the spelling the app you mentioned was only a free trial and hasnt worked besides for about 10 minutes) So can i please ask yourself and others just to be Civil to one another please? And just accept that you cannot agree on everything?
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