[FORMAL PROPOSAL] A Constitution for Fiôvâ

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Esteemed prospective citizens of Fiôvâ, you have SEVEN DAYS to suggest any amendments to this draft.

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BE IT ENACTED by the people of Fiôvâ in their Constituent Assembly, and acting in the best traditions of Talossan democracy and republicanism, that the following constitutes the Constitution for a new Province in the Kingdom of Talossa:

1. a) The name of the Province is the Free Province of Fiôvâ, or in Talossan, la Provinçù Liveradâ da Fiôvâ.
b) The territory of the Province consists of two cantons in south-western Talossa, with the Manaweg as their western and southern border, named (from north to south) el Cantôn Cüféir (Cooper Canton) and Las Înaltàns Maxhéstici (LIM, Majestic Heights). Precise borders shall be those set by the Ziu.
c) The capital of the Province is the Mitchell Building in LIM Canton.

2. a) The flag of the Province shall be [KANE, can you give us an image link to your flag?].
b) The motto of the Province shall be Desfisetz qualsëcosâ denâ (Dare Something Worthy).

3. All elections in Fiôvâ are carried out by secret ballot and by principles of proportional representation. Other stipulations may be added by provincial law.

4. Executive power in Fiôvâ is exercised by a Capitán, elected by the whole people and confirmed by the Cunstavál. The Capitán's term of office shall end every June 1, or earlier in case of resignation or by a vote of no confidence by the General Assembly. Elections for a new Capitán shall be held at the same time as the next Kingdom General Election after the office becomes vacant.

5. Whenever the office of Capitán becomes vacant, the Cunstavál may name an Acting Capitán to serve until the next election. Failing this, if there is a Deputy Capitán, then that person shall become Acting Capitán until an Acting Capitán is named or until the next election. All provisions of this Constitution concerning the Capitán apply to the Acting Capitán.

6. The Capitán may delegate any executive powers to Provincial Ministers. The Ministers are nominated by the Capitán and confirmed by the Cunstavál. The Ministers are collectively and individually responsible to and may be dismissed by the Capitán or the General Assembly. The Capitán and Ministers are collectively known as "the Government".

7. Legislative power in Fiôvâ is exercised by the General Assembly of all citizens. The Assembly shall be chaired by a Túischac'h elected by the Assembly. A new Túischac'h shall be elected every time the office is vacant.

8. Judicial power is exercised by a Landsdoom, consisting of one or more adjudicators nominated by the Cunstavál and approved by the General Assembly, as and when necessary. Decisions of the Landsdoom may be appealed to Kingdom Corts.

9. Provincial Law consists of (in order of precedence) the Organic Law of the Kingdom of Talossa, the laws of the Federal Ziu (except in matters reserved to the provinces), this Constitution, the Laws passed by the General Assembly, decisions of the Landsdoom, and Executive Orders. Executive Orders are issued by the Cunstavál in the name of the Government and must be co-signed by the Capitán. They may be overturned by the General Assembly.

10. Amendments to this Constitution require a 2/3 majority in the General Assembly. All other laws require a simple majority to be sent to the Cunstavál for promulgation. Any veto by the Cunstavál may be overturned by a majority vote on an unaltered bill.

11. Elections and maintenance of provincial governmental and electoral archives are conducted by a Secretary of State, elected and dismissed by the General Assembly. If no Secretary of State is appointed, the Túischac'h shall conduct these duties.

12. All debates and votes of the General Assembly are public except in the case of national or provincial security, or involving sensitive personal information.

13. Every officer named under this Constitution may nominate a Deputy to fulfil their functions in case of absence, or to act as a provisional replacement in cases of resignation or dismissal. Any officer named under this Constitution shall be considered absent if they fail to confirm their presence to the General Assembly within seven (7) days of being called upon to do so.

[C. Carlüs Xheraltescù]

I don't believe I have any amendments.

[Iustì Carlüs Canun]

"The Majestic Heights" would be Las Înaltàs Maxhestici in OS Talossan.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Apr 29, 2012 19:36:12 GMT -6 Iustì Carlüs Canun said:

"The Majestic Heights" would be Las Înaltàs Maxhestici in OS Talossan.

Thanks, but the plural is -ns for words ending in stressed vowels.

[Iustì Carlüs Canun]

Hm... The Översteir needs an update then...

[Ián B. Anglatzarâ]

No amendments.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Apr 29, 2012 21:22:10 GMT -6 Iustì Carlüs Canun said:

Hm... The Översteir needs an update then...

Wasn't that one of the things they changed in the Arestadâ? As the title of the famous Republican magazine, Qator Itrìns, shows, that was definitely the original rule, and Tomas G. told me that himself.

[Audrada Rôibeardét]

No amendments.

[D. N. Vercáriâ]

regarding 9.) decisions of the Landsdoom (Provincial Court) shall be deemed laws? I don't know. Court decisions are Court decisions - if the Court rules in legislative issues, said issues in question should IMHO be returned to the legislative body, maybe with recommendations. But legislation should definitely remain the job of the GA or elected legislators. Lets keep the powers seperate.

regarding 7.) in the Republic we had this emergency law, which provided the GA as a fallback for political decision making in case that the elected Parliament grew too small, or something like that. Here I'd wish to see an opposite clause, which says that the GA is replaced by a representative, secretly elected provincial Parliament once the GA grows too big... say, when we have an active population of more then 15 souls, or something along these lines.

My two litres of beer, er, my two groats...

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

I don't know how it works in continental "civil law" administrations, but in Anglo-Saxon "common law" jurisdictions, decisions of courts do count as binding precedent, which is what I was getting at. Of course you would have noticed that the GA can overrule court decisions, but Executive Orders can't.

I'm not a fan of "this provision kicks in later when we have more members" provisions. We tried that in the 2004 Republican constitution with the Senäts, and it never happened and had to be repealed.

[Gjermund Higraff]

No amendments

[D. N. Vercáriâ]

Apr 30, 2012 2:30:18 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

I don't know how it works in continental "civil law" administrations, but in Anglo-Saxon "common law" jurisdictions, decisions of courts do count as binding precedent, which is what I was getting at. Of course you would have noticed that the GA can overrule court decisions, but Executive Orders can't.

As far as I am understanding what the OrgLaw is saying on this, Courts can interpret laws (and therefore, they can create a non-binding interpretative precedent), but they cannot create law. In case of unclear or missing laws, they can advise the parliament to clarify the respective legislation.

That is, strictly speaking Landsdoom decisions cannot be part of the Provincial Law, only kind of an interpretative comment on Law. I guess that's what you meant to express anyway, but section 9 of the draft Provicial Constitution may be a bit misunderstandable in this, IMHO.

So I propose the following amendment: The words "decisions of the Landsdoom" shall be removed from section 9.

[Istefan Perþonest]

I pray the indulgence of this body for a moment.

I have discussed the draft here with the King, and there are a few areas of concern.

1) It is possible for a Cosa election to happen just before the office of Capitán becomes vacant, and thus leave Fiôvâ without an elected Capitán for an extended period of time. This is not seen as particularly desirable, and since a General Assembly of all citizens is inherently not dissolvable, there is no current need to align elections with national ones to take advantage of the Organic Law's provisions regarding dissolubility.

2) The King is of the opinion that the provision for a simple majority veto override in the M-M constitution is inOrganic. To the point that if there's ever a veto override by less than 2/3 in M-M, he intends to challenge the provision in Cort. So an increase in the requirement in this constitution to a two-thirds majority (the same as the national Ziu) is strongly desired.

3) As part of the purpose of a veto is to induce reflection, and as in the Ziu a veto necessarily translates to a month's delay in enactment even in case of an override, a waiting period between a veto and an override is desired, of about four weeks' length.

To these ends, I am suggesting that:

A) Elections of the Capitán revert to the original fixed schedule of once a year, with some provision made for new elections in case of vacancy.

B) The royal veto override majority be increased to two-thirds, and a override vote not being final until completion of a period of four weeks from original passage.

Thank you for your attention.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

Can I get clarification? You say "royal veto". Who actually makes a decision on whether a provincial bill is to be vetoed - the King, the Cunstavál, or some combination of the two?

[Istefan Perþonest]

Apr 30, 2012 17:16:08 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Can I get clarification? You say "royal veto". Who actually makes a decision on whether a provincial bill is to be vetoed - the King, the Cunstavál, or some combination of the two?

In ordinary circumstances, the Cunstevál will be making the decisions, but the power is in the category of what the OrgLaw calls "royal powers" and (my understanding is) thus could be exercised by the King of he so chose.