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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2008 6:29:23 GMT -6
All fabulous suggestions. I am toying with the idea of dropping the list of protected titles and instead saying something to the effect of "Any title of nobility, written or spoken in Talossan, English or any Romance Language" any thoughts?
My thought process is, we have the broadest protection, if someone wants to use the title "Lord" in Greek, it would be unrecognizable to most as a noble title.
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Sept 25, 2008 6:45:41 GMT -6
So Duke Ellington cannot join Talossa, but Herzog Ellington can?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2008 6:59:30 GMT -6
Dreu, changing your Witt name to reflect every title of nobility is, at best, extremely disrespectful.
To my legal eagles, I made quite a few changes, let me know what you all think. I left the bit in about the military members guilty of the impersonating an officer simply to establish jurisdiction for that offense and leave it in the hands of the military.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Sept 25, 2008 7:09:13 GMT -6
Dreu? Disrespectful? pfft.
I'm sure that everyone that actually did something for this Kingdom and was granted a title are glad to have Dreu mimicking them.
I can think of a few more "Titles" I'd like to call Dreu.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2008 7:11:24 GMT -6
Dreu? Disrespectful? pfft. I'm sure that everyone that actually did something for this Kingdom and was granted a title are glad to have Dreu mimicking them. I can think of a few more "Titles" I'd like to call Dreu. I did propose we legally change his name to "Poop" but it never quite caught on...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2008 7:14:22 GMT -6
So Duke Ellington cannot join Talossa, but Herzog Ellington can? Listen, Poop. If you'd bother to read the legislation, you'd see that it is only meant to prevent those who use unauthorized titles. If a person's legal name happens to be "Duke" then that isn't really using a title, now is it?
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Sept 25, 2008 7:17:00 GMT -6
I'm simply trying to expose the ridiculousness of this bill.
I'm sorry to be so rude about it, but this is just the way I feel - it's stupid:
First off, if it was up to me we wouldn't have a military. How do we benefit from it? Next, I would much rather honor people with some kind of prize/medal than a remnant of a totalitarian monarchy.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Sept 25, 2008 8:04:32 GMT -6
I'm simply trying to expose the ridiculousness of this bill. I'm sorry to be so rude about it, but this is just the way I feel - it's stupid: First off, if it was up to me we wouldn't have a military. How do we benefit from it? Next, I would much rather honor people with some kind of prize/medal than a remnant of a totalitarian monarchy. Yes, we all know how you feel about the Military. Dishonorable, evil, horrid Miltiary, and anyone that serves them has no soul. If you feel that way about the Titles, then go join the Republicans. Hell, your half in bed with them anyway. They don't have titles, they don't believe in Monarchies, They don't believe in medals, prizes, etc. I think that would suit you fine. And I'm not sorry about being rude about it. I'm tired of you being an Ass, and I'm calling you out on it.
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Sept 25, 2008 8:31:21 GMT -6
Mick-
You're completely right. Being friendly to nice people is exactly the same as being half in bed with them. How could I not realize this before? Oh right... because it's not!
Yes, we all know how you feel about the Military. Honourable, great, wonderful Military, and anyone that serves them will go to heaven and be happy for eternity.
If you feel that way about absolute power, then go join Kim Jong Il. Hell, you're half in bed with him anyway (but that may not be a bad thing, he seems kinda cuddly).
They have an absolute supreme ruler. They don't believe in different people having different opinions. I think that would suit you fine.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Sept 25, 2008 8:40:18 GMT -6
You can't even grasp the concept, Dreu.
I wasn't talking about embracing the republic because they are a bunch of swell people. I wasn't suggesting you were in bed with them because they are really nifty.
I was suggesting that your view of how a country should be run is more in line with theirs, not ours. The Monarchy, Titles, Awards, COAs, etc- all the things you oppose, the Republic opposes also. We've had many arguments about how you want to change the Kingdom to fit the Republican view of Talossa. We've never had an argument if they are nice people or not.
I'm also suggesting that it's ok to have different opinions, but not to present them like a jerk. I've debated many people in the Kingdom about ideas, and have polite discussions with them about it.
You, on the other had, haven't grasped that concept yet.
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Post by Owen Edwards on Sept 25, 2008 8:54:09 GMT -6
Authorised government? (This may have been answered.) Where's the line? What defines those authorised to grant titles? What if one is nobility elsewhere already?
x
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Post by Owen Edwards on Sept 25, 2008 8:56:04 GMT -6
P.S. and double post to be even clearer.
CALM DOWN PEOPLE. Breathe in, get drunk and find pretty people to dance with, quit with the bitchy comments, justified or not.
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Vit Caçeir
"I hated being AG so much I fled as far from it as literally possible."
Posts: 810
Talossan Since: 11-19-2007
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Post by Vit Caçeir on Sept 25, 2008 14:22:33 GMT -6
I'm simply trying to expose the ridiculousness of this bill. You've yet to express though, what the harm of this bill is. Blatant disrespect towards an officer of any nation's military should be illegal. It's false impersonation of someone who has earned a title, and should be punishable (perhaps not severely, but nonetheless) by law. As for your "Duke Ellington nickname" suggestion, if the person's name/alias is 'Duke', that's one thing. If he declares himself the "Duke of Ellington (wherever the hell that is)", it's another thing entirely. First off, if it was up to me we wouldn't have a military. How do we benefit from it? I thank every conceivable power in Heaven that it is not up to you. By the way, I like your new signature. It's oddly specific.
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Vit Caçeir
"I hated being AG so much I fled as far from it as literally possible."
Posts: 810
Talossan Since: 11-19-2007
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Post by Vit Caçeir on Sept 25, 2008 14:25:49 GMT -6
Double post. Murder me. Yes, we all know how you feel about the Military. Honourable, great, wonderful Military, and anyone that serves them will go to heaven and be happy for eternity. That's downright bullshit. The military is honourable. Maybe not what certain members of the military do, but every member of every armed force in the world has experienced more than you or I have in our lives; that has to be commended whether you bloody well like it or not. They have an absolute supreme ruler. They don't believe in different people having different opinions. I think that would suit you fine. You have every right to have a ridiculous opinion as others do to oppose it... or call it ridiculous. It's not illegal for you to speak, Dreu... yet.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2008 14:45:23 GMT -6
Authorised government? (This may have been answered.) Where's the line? What defines those authorised to grant titles? What if one is nobility elsewhere already? x What defines those authorized to grant titles is simple. If the Kingdom awarded it, it is authorized. We need to really take into consideration a few concerns here. "I was awarded the title 'Sir' by the Queen of England!" Relevant argument, but if we say "it is OK to use a title awarded by a foreign government" then don't we open the door for... "I was awarded the title 'Emperor' by the Kingdom of Fakeoville" Now, which of the two are we more likely to see more of? Here is what I would say. If an honest to goodness noble or knight from another nation came to us seeking citizenship. So Prince Charles comes up to us and says "Hey! I wanna be a Talossan" are we saying he can't join us? No, we're simply saying that the government has to give it the thumbs up. So if I'm the Prince of Wales and I become a Talossan, and it is just so darn important for me to use that title about town and on Witt, what stops the King from awarding me the title "Prince of Wales?" Nothing. It is simply our King upholding the honor of another King. Now, how many other nobles are becoming Talossan citizens? Not many. Nor do I think we should simply recognize every title that a person claims to hold. I think if you become a subject of the King of Talossa, and he should award you a title for your dedicated service, that is what we need to preserve, not a person's inherent right to be awarded titles and use them everywhere they go. And Dreu, you are 14 and clearly have a brilliant mind for political science. What you are lacking, however, is an education in that science. You make statements about how things should be without researching alternatives. You spent countless times on Witt trying to redistrict Provinces, have bills written in both English and Talossan and create an award for non-Talossans. And yet, in the latter, while you clearly recognize the King (and heck, he's a pretty cool guy!) you harbour this awful resentment toward the titles he bestows on people who did amazing things for this Kingdom. And lastly, let me say that you aren't scoring points bashing the military, especially when you are talking to Mick. Mick is a veteran of the United States Army and I of the United States Navy. We both stepped up to give something back to the country which enabled us to receive an education, vote and overall lead our happy little lives. If you don't agree with the military, fine, but don't go yelling at a veteran and expect waves of support.
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