Lord Q
Citizen since 5-21-1998; Baron since 2-23-2006
The beatings will continue until morale improves
Posts: 1,263
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Post by Lord Q on Feb 12, 2006 0:02:17 GMT -6
That's something I wanted to talk to you about, and that sounds like a great idea. I'll throw the bill in the Hopper tomorrow and we can see how to adjust it to accomodate the privateer fleet.
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Baron Fritz
Citizen since 12-7-2004; Knight since 11-30-2005
Posts: 575
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Post by Baron Fritz on Feb 12, 2006 13:07:01 GMT -6
Talossa Fest (and the U.S. Consulate) are but six miles from the shores of Lake Michigan and a large collection of ships anchored in Port Washington. I would suggest the Minister of Defense, Joe Clark, make himself present and lead a delegation of interested sailors down to the port during Talossa Fest to enjoy the Grog at Sir James Pub as well as the beauty of the sailing vessels at dock there.
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Trotxâ
Talossan since 10-17-2005; Knight since 11-5-2006
Deo duce, ferro comitante
Posts: 1,574
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Post by Trotxâ on Feb 12, 2006 20:22:08 GMT -6
And to lead the cutting out expedition afterwards, right Sir Fritz?
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Sir Samuhel Tecladeir
Citizen since 8-22-2005; Knight since 10-23-2006
If you don't rock the boat, no one will know it's sinking.
Posts: 436
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Post by Sir Samuhel Tecladeir on Feb 12, 2006 22:45:04 GMT -6
Just one more point: I think it would also be wise to disavow should anyone be caught. Letters of marque are a bit out-dated and if by some unfortunate stroke of luck (somebody goes insane and attacks a naval warship), I would hate to be legally caught against an armed force. Privateering is a fine thing, but it was always against an enemy. I would be concerned if someone made enemies while privateering for Talossa.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Feb 13, 2006 5:06:16 GMT -6
Just one more point: I think it would also be wise to disavow should anyone be caught. Like in Mission Impossible? "This Letter of Marque will self-destruct in five seconds."
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Sir Samuhel Tecladeir
Citizen since 8-22-2005; Knight since 10-23-2006
If you don't rock the boat, no one will know it's sinking.
Posts: 436
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Post by Sir Samuhel Tecladeir on Feb 13, 2006 20:16:21 GMT -6
Yeah, something like that. However, I don't think it's possible to make a ficticous piece of paper over the Internet self destr
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Feb 22, 2006 5:15:31 GMT -6
Fictitious piece of paper? I rather had in mind something suitable for framing! All we need is a decent calligrapher in the Kingdom.
I have a couple of suggestions for this bill and/or the Navy one, which I will try to post tonight or tomorrow morning.
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Post by Ups Antônio Martüc on Feb 22, 2006 9:56:36 GMT -6
Just one more point: I think it would also be wise to disavow should anyone be caught. Letters of marque are a bit out-dated and if by some unfortunate stroke of luck (somebody goes insane and attacks a naval warship), I would hate to be legally caught against an armed force. Privateering is a fine thing, but it was always against an enemy. I would be concerned if someone made enemies while privateering for Talossa. Finally someone that thinks the way I do. I think this bill will pass, I don't see much resistance to it. I wonder what people would consider privateering. A naval militia? Or just Talossan citizens doing their own thing? I never said privateering was stupid, I just wonder about people getting in trouble if they really decide to do it! I quote from a source on Google www.embassy.org.nz/encycl/p5encyc.htm"Privateering arose as sovereigns with weak navies encouraged reprisal attacks by privately-owned vessels against pirates of other nations. Operating on a "no prize, no pay" basis the crews were tempted in doing a little piracy on the side. These privateer-pirate ships were also used to damage and destroy the trade of a potential enemy." I like this. If it can be used against an enemy in the future in a productive way, then why not. It would sure even the odds if we have a weak navy, unless of course it's the US Navy. That's not very becoming. I will probably be FOR this because it's so popular for 1. But also that it's a good thing for a weak navy when the nation has an enemy. So who knows, maybe somewhere down the line it will be useful.
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Post by Nic Casálmac'h on Feb 22, 2006 14:13:47 GMT -6
Fictitious piece of paper? I rather had in mind something suitable for framing! All we need is a decent calligrapher in the Kingdom. I was thinking the same sort of thing. What good is a Letter of Marque that you can't hang up and show everyone? In that case the government could always deny its existence anyway, and where'd the privateers be then? I tried to learn calligraphy. I didn't get very far before I got too busy and forgot about it, but I can write sort of okay in calligraphy. That would be cool to have it done in calligraphy though.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Feb 22, 2006 20:10:26 GMT -6
As promised, here are a couple of suggested changes and additions. 1. The Seneschál, acting by and through the Bureau of the Navy, or the Ministry of Defense, or whatever other office or organ of the Kingdom seems to him most appropriate. I would specify "Bureau of the Navy" or "Admiralty" here, just to make sure the Navy has something to do when everyone wants to be a privateer. I suggest adding the following clauses as well - they are designed to ensure that the Crown gets a share of the booty and to tighten and clarify the relationship between the Navy and Private Adventurers: 7. Upon taking a prize pursuant to the authority granted by his letter of marque and reprisal, a Private Adventurer shall as soon as reasonably practicable report the capture to the Admiralty, describing the vessel captured, its contents, and the circumstances of the capture. Upon receipt of such notice and the return of the Private Adventurer to port, the Admiralty shall convene a prize tribunal, consisting of one or more members of the Royal Talossan Bar, which shall determine the nationality of the captured vessel and the appropriate disposition of the prize, according to the following principles: a. If the prize tribunal determines that the prize was captured while under the flag of an enemy state, the Private Adventurer shall be entitled to three-fourths of the prize and the Crown shall be entitled to one-fourth of the prize. b. If the prize tribunal determines that the prize was captured while under a flag of piracy, or was otherwise a pirate in fact, the prize tribunal shall make a reasonable effort to determine the rightful innocent owner of the vessel or its contents. If a rightful innocent owner is located for any property, such property shall be returned to its owner, but the Private Adventurer shall be entitled to one-fourth of its value for his services. If no rightful innocent owner is found for any property, the Private Adventurer shall be entitled to three-fourths of such property and the Crown shall be entitled to one-fourth of such property. c. If the prize tribunal determines that the prize was captured while engaged in peaceful commerce under the flag of a neutral or friendly state, the prize shall be returned to its owner and the Private Adventurer shall be encouraged to take a little more care next time. d. If the prize tribunal determines that the prize was captured while engaged in peaceful commerce under Talossan flag, the prize shall be returned to its owner and, if such capture was knowing, the tribunal shall recommend that the Admiralty revoke the Private Adventurer's letter. e. The Private Adventurer or any party claiming an interest in a prize may petition the Uppermost Court to enforce or review any determination made by a prize tribunal. 8. Private Adventurers shall be granted commissions as officers in the reserve of the Royal Talossan Navy in inactive status, in a grade befitting their command. Private Adventurers' vessels shall be registered as reserve vessels of the Royal Talossan Navy, and shall be entitled to the style of Vaißál da Sieu Maxhestà, but shall not be required to conform to any classification requirements of the regular fleet. In the event of a declared war between the Kingdom of Talossa and any other state, the Admiral of the Royal Talossan Navy, at the direction of the Minister of Defense, shall activate such Private Adventurers and their vessels as in his discretion may be necessary to supplement the regular fleet to combat the regular naval forces of His Majesty's enemies, which activated Private Adventurers shall be placed on the active duty list and subject to regular military discipline until the earlier of the cessation of declared hostilities or their release by the Admiralty.
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King John
King of Talossa
Posts: 2,415
Talossan Since: 5-7-2005
Knight Since: 11-30-2005
Motto: COR UNUM
King Since: 3-14-2007
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Post by King John on Feb 23, 2006 21:45:55 GMT -6
S:reu Siervicül's suggestions are, I think, good ones, and I'd vote for them. But when I read them in concert with the "Aarrrgh, Mateys" Act, they seem — and I really hate to have to say this — sensible, mature, and responsible. Which means they just don't fit.
Could I suggest another Act, perhaps "An Act for the Regulation and Restraint of Private Adventurers"? Or something?
— John Woolley, UrN
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Feb 24, 2006 5:35:47 GMT -6
How about this - my section 8 could go in the Navy bill, and my section 7 could be a standalone Prize Tribunal Act. My only suggestion for this bill, then, would be a single POC for letters of marque - either the Admiral of the Navy or the Minister of Defense.
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King John
King of Talossa
Posts: 2,415
Talossan Since: 5-7-2005
Knight Since: 11-30-2005
Motto: COR UNUM
King Since: 3-14-2007
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Post by King John on Feb 24, 2006 7:32:47 GMT -6
Sure. So which should it be? We don't always have an Amirál. Do we want letters of marque to have to wait until an Amirál is approved by the Ziu? Maybe "The Amirál (or, if that office is vacant, the Defense Minister or Prime Minister) may ..." ?
— Black Mike
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Sir X. Pol Briga
Talossan since 11-10-2005 Knight since 12-26-2009
59 is an important number - keep it prime in the thoughts of Talossa
Posts: 1,227
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Post by Sir X. Pol Briga on Feb 28, 2006 13:07:15 GMT -6
Friendly amendment to either item 5. or 6. or to add as #7 7. The Kingdom of Talossa recognizes International Talk Like A Pirate Day each September 19th ( www.talklikeapirate.com/piratehome.html ) as an official holiday of the Kingdom and requires all Private Adventurers to observe the holiday and report on their method of observance such that a report for the kingdom may be made by the minister of defense to the Talk Like A Pirate organization about same and thus promote the general public consciousness of the Kingdom.
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Post by Nic Casálmac'h on Mar 8, 2006 17:27:55 GMT -6
Some people are too bloody smart. It's a wonder Talossa has any problems at all with so many people who are trying to prevent potential problems. Now S:reu Siervicül's suggestions are certaintly sensible, but I'm sure no one would wonder why they don't particularly appeal to one such as I.
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