Some Thoughts on US Election

[Albrec'ht Cheleir]

Not all people that don't agree with the gay stuff hate gays and are bigoted...those that do give the rest of us a bad name....

There are those that don't actually dislike or hate the person, but actually what that person chooses to do...same with God, He doesn't hate the person, just the action. A lot of people don't get that.

[jj2]

>>You are out of line here Ben.

Thank you. I did not exepct to see something like "reformed?" in reference to me here. That is exactly the kind of petty personal attack that chills Talossa to the bone. Go against the Edicts of the Great Ben and risk being assassinated. Of course, I don't need to make that point to the "rump Talossa" that is left, now do I?

>I was referring specifically to I.M.'s attack on Talossa, that "Talossa" (as he put it in quotes) was somehow 'unamerican' because some Talossans voted for Kerry or supported him.

That is not at all what I wrote or intended.

>This is a reversion to some positions he took back in the 1980s during his neo-Nazi phase when he was accusing Talossa of being "subversive" and "unamerican" because I was pretty anti-American as a sophomore in high school 25 years ago. My point was that while I was badmouthing the US in general 25 years ago, he was promoting Nazi and other racist doctrines.

And you were a communist, praising petty dictators responsible for oppression and mass murder as well. The point is, you were so anti-American you formed Talossa, as a way to separate yourself from the US. You have - countless times - sided openly and disgustingly with foreigners - on trips outside the US or on the internet. The fact is, you have no love for your country and "patriotism" for anything but your personal fantasy fiefdom of Talossan
Sycophants is alien to you. Guess that makes you a "good Democrat" after all.

> Apparently, he thinks that talking about proportional representation in Germany is a vicious attack on America!

Hardly. You went much farther than that and you always have. Everytime "your side" loses an election, we hear these complaints about a rotten electoral system. And, of course, reversion to the old proto-Talossan hatred of the average American. Your side in this election was comprised of leftwing thugs. Normally thuggery and vandalism earns your scorn. Of course, not when they serve your purpose and attack your erstwhile friends, I guess.

The FACT is, had some Republican punks been treating you and your property in the same way as I was treated, and you told me about it or posted it, my initial reaction would NOT have been YOU'RE SO IGNORANT.

If you believe that, then stop responding to my posts, since I'm so obviously inferior to the great Ben intellect.

>I respect it too--Bush won this election fair and square. I am just saying that there are some unsavory elements in the US population on both sides of the fence, and that the unsavory elements have a LOT more direct political power on the Republican side.

Yeah, he'd much rather have Michael Moore, Barbra Steisand, Al Franken and anti-American Hollywood elitist scumbags defining our future for us. So long as the Dems suck up to these assholes, they're going to be a minority party.

>>Bad: I (like most Canadians) feel that my country is less safe with Bush at the head of the U.S.

That's ridiculous.

>48% of Americans agree with you.

51% disagree. A majority. And Bush's margib of victory was something like 3 1/2 million votes. He increased his own plurality by some 7 million. People saw through Kerry's flip-flopping, long history of liberalism and waffling and showed him the door - as well as many in his ever leftward-tilting party - in obvious fashion.

>>Ultimately, there is nothing to dwell about anyway, can we get back to Talossan politics?

>I agree--though I dispute I.M.'s assertion that we shouldn't be 'allowed' to talk about US politics, or anything else, on Wittenberg.

I was pretty much quoting YOU. You should be flattered. You have decried ad nauseum the propensity for Talossans to dwell on US political matters on Wittenberg, and have chastened those doing so over and over again.

[Xhorxh Asmour]

Although Talossa is an "artificial" nation, it is supposed to be an INDEPENDENT nation, not a poor, smaller-than-life imitation of the U.S.A.
I'm not anti-American at all, but I think American affairs shouldn't be more important than Talossan affairs.

[kri]

I agree with Xhorxh, Talossa's identity is that of an independent nation. Making decisions in a Talossan context based on US politics (or Canadian politics, or Zimbabwean politics) is inappropriate.

Dan Lorentz had his John Kerry sign ripped off his property too. Dan didn't use this as an excuse to denounce Talossa or quit the Uppermost Cort. And the wider issue which I tried to address -- the bitter partisan anger in US politics, on BOTH sides -- seems to have been lost in the fog. Oh well.

Al Cheléir wrote:

>Not all people that don't agree with the gay stuff hate gays and are bigoted...those that do give the rest of us a bad name....

>There are those that don't actually dislike or hate the person, but actually what that person chooses to do...same with God, He doesn't hate the person, just the action. A lot of people don't get that.

My personal view is that Gay marriage or civil unions or whichever term you prefer (I prefer the latter, as I'm uncomfortable with "redefining" words for political reasons) was used in this election as a "wedge issue" to divide Americans and to encourage turnout for Bush. Pretty much all the national commentators have said the same thing.

The irony of all this is a lot of Gay marriage stuff is driven by the desire of one partner to obtain health care coverage under the other partner's insurance plan. There would be a lot less clamour for Gay marriage if the US, like every other country in the civilized world, simply had affordable health care for ALL its citizens. If we were a reasonable people, the Democrats and Republicans would come to a compromise: Everybody gets health care, and marriage is defined as the union of a man and a woman.

Wedged in my front door on election day was a brochure from some outfit calling themselves "Wisconsin Christians" or some such. While it wasn't directly an appeal for people to vote for Bush, it was a torrent of "facts" about homosexuality and associated "filthy acts." It asked people to support efforts to "recriminalize sodomy" (its words). Now, seriously -- why was this brochure passed out on election day? To get people to vote for John Kerry? Or to remind them to vote for a candidate who had identified himself with "moral values" and the anti-Gay cause?

All I said was that the anti-Gay crusade masterminded by Karl Rove and forthrightly endorsed by President Bush was a major factor in the Republican victories of the 2004 election. Pretending otherwise is, to use my word, "ignorant."

Why this fact should be an issue of controversy is beyond me. Evidently, it is. I guess it's another good reminder that Talossans are at their best when we ignore the United States.

Ben

[seahobbit]

JJ said:

>>Bad: I (like most Canadians) feel that my country is less safe with Bush at the head of the U.S.

That's ridiculous.

Is it?

In the schoolyard, it is often safer to be associated with a respected student than a bully. In any case, the extra security that is now required everywhere is costly and affect our freedoms.

Marc Moisan, C.D.