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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Jul 27, 2019 14:13:28 GMT -6
Similarly, the Governor of Florencia could be argued to have "deemed" to pass the merger bill to the Constable by means of his (belated) për vote. Could we not? If I may be allowed to play devil's advocate for a moment, I can understand how the Governor voting in favor of a bill in his capacity as member of the Nimlet might be different than the Governor subsequently referring the bill to the Constable after it passed in his capacity as Governor. This is probably the King's strongest argument against the referendum. Wow you rolled over quickly on this.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Jul 27, 2019 14:16:16 GMT -6
If I may be allowed to play devil's advocate for a moment, I can understand how the Governor voting in favor of a bill in his capacity as member of the Nimlet might be different than the Governor subsequently referring the bill to the Constable after it passed in his capacity as Governor. This is probably the King's strongest argument against the referendum. Wow you rolled over quickly on this. Would you like to present a counterargument? Using my faculties to arrive at a (tentative, mind you) conclusion does not seem like rolling over to me; in fact, it is quite the opposite.
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Jul 27, 2019 14:17:26 GMT -6
Wow you rolled over quickly on this. Would you like to present a counterargument? Using my faculties to arrive at a (tentative, mind you) conclusion does not seem like rolling over to me; in fact, it is quite the opposite. Why?
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Jul 27, 2019 14:20:28 GMT -6
Would you like to present a counterargument? Using my faculties to arrive at a (tentative, mind you) conclusion does not seem like rolling over to me; in fact, it is quite the opposite. Why? To "roll over," at least how I understand the term, means to submit to someone else's ideas out of intimidation or brown-nosing. Coming up with my own ideas and then talking them through would not be that.
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Jul 27, 2019 14:21:26 GMT -6
To "roll over," at least how I understand the term, means to submit to someone else's ideas out of intimidation or brown-nosing. Coming up with my own ideas and then talking them through would not be that. Nonresponsive.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Jul 27, 2019 14:26:59 GMT -6
To "roll over," at least how I understand the term, means to submit to someone else's ideas out of intimidation or brown-nosing. Coming up with my own ideas and then talking them through would not be that. Nonresponsive. Well, I tried my best to answer the question "Why is it not rolling over to use faculties to arrive at a conclusion," which is what I thought you asked because it was the clearest interpretation of what you said. What is the question you want me to answer?
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 27, 2019 14:28:20 GMT -6
Honestly, I'm not sure all of this devil's advocacy and what-ifs does any good, because this is not a political argument, it is an argument for the CpI.
But here is what I think from a non-professional viewpoint: in traditional English law, every "i" had to be dotted and "t" crossed for something to be effective in law. If any aspect of the process was not 100% followed, it was illegal. That's why "courts of equity" evolved, because sometimes the consequences of strictly following the letter of the law were manifestly unfair and unjust.
Similarly in Talossa - given our small and non-specialist population - I think the Courts need to give weight to the consequences of a to-the-letter following of the legal process. Sure, you can argue that even if the Governor clearly approved of the law (a conclusion based not only on the fact that he voted for it, but that he was the one who first brought up the idea of the F-F provincial merger, and he has never changed his mind since), he might not have "meant" to pass it on to the Constable. But what would be the negative consequences of accepting that legal principle? (And that's leaving aside the whole question of whether the merger resolution was a "law" that would need the Constable's assent anyway.)
Let us put the real issue, as I see it, plainly: - the merger was planned because Florencia's provincial government has been immobile for ages because of inactivity. - the merger proposal took ages to get through the Nimlet (after it was quickly passed by Fiova) because of the inactivity of all but 1 member of the Nimlet, and that latter belated. - the Governor didn't vote on it in time. - the Constable didn't comment on it until very belatedly.
For the King's action to succeed, means that a measure designed to stop the negative consequences of Florencian apathy towards its provincial government could fail because of Florencian apathy towards their provincial government. This is not "equity".
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 27, 2019 14:35:22 GMT -6
That said, a lot of major reforms and projects have been happening, often in a rather rushed fashion. It chaps my mangoes that this complaint can be raised when the recently-retired RUMP leader was fond of going on and on about how this is a do-nothing government. It seems true that there is no reward for doing everything in Talossa apart from being assailed by Monday-morning quarterbacks.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 27, 2019 18:41:18 GMT -6
That said, a lot of major reforms and projects have been happening, often in a rather rushed fashion. It chaps my mangoes that this complaint can be raised when the recently-retired RUMP leader was fond of going on and on about how this is a do-nothing government. This is not true. I barely commented on this government. I am not responsible for the version of me that resides in your head. That fellow is prone to heaping scorn on democracy, declaring that he will refuse to do anything if he has no power, and other such interesting activities. He's quite lively, it does seem, and he goes in for you quite a lot with some stinging criticism (which is cruel of him, since you are so kind to give him a lease without any expectations of rent).
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 27, 2019 20:38:00 GMT -6
It chaps my mangoes that this complaint can be raised when the recently-retired RUMP leader was fond of going on and on about how this is a do-nothing government. This is not true. I hope you guys don't block this, though. At least him being here will be interesting. The idea that he has a decade-long plan to seize control is strange, but at least that would involve someone doing something here. We're at the point where, months into a new government, the main thing being planned is a survey to ask why so many people have left us.Emphasis added. It shouldn't surprise me that you are now trying to deny that your main line of attack against this government was lack of activity, but if you're not going to go undergo a "sudden change of heart" and tell Eðo to give you your seats back, it doesn't matter.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 27, 2019 20:59:51 GMT -6
Obviously I have made some criticisms, about on the order of once per month. But I haven't been going on about it much. No speeches in the Ziu, etc. Don't be such a whiner. You complain more about me criticizing than I actually do it.
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