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Post by E.S. Bornatfiglheu on Jan 8, 2019 19:58:44 GMT -6
If you recall, my conviction was not overturned. The sentence was vacated. This is a different thing from being overturned.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 8, 2019 20:01:12 GMT -6
True! And also I am aware that none of these legal shenanigans are your fault.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 9, 2019 1:11:19 GMT -6
Instead of going on with your blah blah blah about how simply monstrous it all is, here's a thought - propose a bill to the Ziu which would prevent any future A-Xh doing the same thing. Your attempt to scold and shame has no effect because you have absolutely no moral authority - or indeed authority as a legal expert. V at least has the latter.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 9, 2019 7:02:48 GMT -6
Yeah, if I were you, I wouldn't try to engage on the substance of the matter, either. Appeals to authority are probably best.
Ok, I'll write a bill.
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Jan 9, 2019 16:24:08 GMT -6
Preserving a fair and adversarial system IS important, except, you know, when John gets on a phone and threatens someone with non-Talossa legal action. That's really fair.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 9, 2019 22:06:18 GMT -6
ESB has in the past alleged that His Majesty threatened him. ESB has also confessed to widespread fraud and deceit on a huge scale.
His Majesty has stated clearly and consistently that he did not. His Majesty has never confessed to creating more than a dozen false identities, voting with them, having one of them gain a seat in the Ziu, or any of the equivalent.
This is... not hard.
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Jan 10, 2019 4:50:37 GMT -6
ESB has in the past alleged that His Majesty threatened him. ESB has also confessed to widespread fraud and deceit on a huge scale. His Majesty has stated clearly and consistently that he did not. His Majesty has never confessed to creating more than a dozen false identities, voting with them, having one of them gain a seat in the Ziu, or any of the equivalent. This is... not hard. John stated that he couldnt remember whether he brougt up real world legal action, and admitted that he may have said something that could be perceived as that. Then, magically, years later, he suddenly claims otherwise. Because, like you, John is a godless liar focused more on preserving his little internet club than seeing Talossa realize its potential. This is... not hard.
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Post by E.S. Bornatfiglheu on Jan 10, 2019 7:51:17 GMT -6
Since the night the King called me at home, I have not lied to the Talossan people. I have been consistent in my assertion of a threat of macronational legal action, and his Magesty has similarly acknowledged that he may have said something along those lines, but cannot remember. It may have been rooted in the fact that at the beginning of the call, he thought "Ben Stamford" (aka Cornboy) was an actual person who's account I had hacked or otherwise gained access to. I had to specifically say "Oh no, I made him up too."
I do not blame folks for not believing my assertion. But given that it is what transpired (or at least my perspective, if you prefer), it is not going to change. Do you believe my confession? Then why not the rest of it when acknowledged as plausible by the king?
Just remember that there is an actual person sitting on the other side of this keyboard. I am first absolved of "shenanigans," but then "ESB" is waved around as a political cudgel. I am ESB, Eiric S Bornatfiglheu. I live in Ohio. I am a teacher. I am mentally ill. I am married and have two cats. I paint in my spare time. I am also a former convict who is trying to do right by the people he wronged and is getting along as best he can.
But according to your rhetoric, I am also "ashes underfoot." My very presence in the public halls is held up as the destruction and degradation of Talossa. Claim that you are referring to the "shenanigans" in this case. But remember that there is a very real person who is being consistently dehumanized and bogeyfied. ESB is not a creature that hides under the beds of naughty dandelions, waiting to emerge at night and commit voter fraud. ESB is me.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 10, 2019 11:02:21 GMT -6
Since the night the King called me at home, I have not lied to the Talossan people. I have been consistent in my assertion of a threat of macronational legal action, and his Magesty has similarly acknowledged that he may have said something along those lines, but cannot remember. It may have been rooted in the fact that at the beginning of the call, he thought "Ben Stamford" (aka Cornboy) was an actual person who's account I had hacked or otherwise gained access to. I had to specifically say "Oh no, I made him up too." I do not blame folks for not believing my assertion. But given that it is what transpired (or at least my perspective, if you prefer), it is not going to change. Do you believe my confession? Then why not the rest of it when acknowledged as plausible by the king? Just remember that there is an actual person sitting on the other side of this keyboard. I am first absolved of "shenanigans," but then "ESB" is waved around as a political cudgel. I am ESB, Eiric S Bornatfiglheu. I live in Ohio. I am a teacher. I am mentally ill. I am married and have two cats. I paint in my spare time. I am also a former convict who is trying to do right by the people he wronged and is getting along as best he can. But according to your rhetoric, I am also "ashes underfoot." My very presence in the public halls is held up as the destruction and degradation of Talossa. Claim that you are referring to the "shenanigans" in this case. But remember that there is a very real person who is being consistently dehumanized and bogeyfied. ESB is not a creature that hides under the beds of naughty dandelions, waiting to emerge at night and commit voter fraud. ESB is me. There's two things going on here, ESB: your crimes, for which you have mostly taken your lumps and which you have admirably worked to redeem yourself from, and the recent legal proceeding. You did the former, but had nothing to do with the latter so far as I know. I regret that this conversation does so often talk about you, almost as an object, rather than to you. From everything I have seen, the king has consistently said that he did not threaten you as far as he knows, and doesn't think he would have done so, but he does cede that pointing out to you that your crimes could have real-life consequences might have been perceived as a threat, even though that's not really how threats work. That seems the most plausible thing to me, and it also happens to mesh well with what I know of his character, both of your recollections, and the circumstances. That is what I have always been inclined to think was most probable. For what it's worth, I also think it's good that you're re-engaged in Talossa. I didn't think it was a great idea for you to be in charge of immigration, but hopefully you can understand that as reasonable caution. But that doesn't extend to wishing you out of public life. For example, I have no plans and never have planned to do something like run a campaign against the FDT, lambasting them for appointing you an MZ; I'm glad to see you're in the Ziu. and I would have preferred that none of the recent legal unpleasantness happened at all and dredged this stuff up, either. Sorry for my part in talking about you in this way -- I apologize.
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King John
King of Talossa
Posts: 2,415
Talossan Since: 5-7-2005
Knight Since: 11-30-2005
Motto: COR UNUM
King Since: 3-14-2007
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Post by King John on Feb 4, 2019 17:24:25 GMT -6
I did NOT say anything even slightly threatening legal action. I DID say some things — as I've said before — that I suppose could have been taken that way. (But I was surprised when ESB first claimed to have interpreted my words that way.) The legal action *I* was referring to, was the possibility of legal action on the part of people whose identities ESB had "stolen" in the sense of using their names (and addresses, and bits of biography?) as names of his sock-puppets. What I was thinking, and trying (apparently unsuccessfully) to communicate, was that if the affair came to a prosecution in the Talossan Corts, one of the obvious things the prosecutors would do is to contact the *real* people behind the sock puppets for their testimony that ESB's fake messages had not come from them. And that if that happened, it wouldn't be the least bit surprising if legal action ensued in the United States courts. I never at any time contemplated bringing any action against ESB outside of Talossa.
I am getting really sick of being called a liar about all this. (And now a "godless" liar?)
— John R
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Feb 10, 2019 13:37:59 GMT -6
I am getting really sick of being called a liar about all this. (And now a "godless" liar?) — John R Then stop being a godless liar. Or simply, stop being a liar. I don't really care if you're godless.
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