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Post by Sevastáin Pinátsch on Apr 9, 2015 16:36:42 GMT -6
Interesting that you think I want to promote my aggregator. Too bad it's not designed to make money or bring personal glory.
With the time I have this week I am working on the immigration form.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 9, 2015 16:58:11 GMT -6
I'm not really sure I said anything about you wanting money. I'm sure that you just want to see the useful and interesting tool that you built get some exposure, so that people can use it. As one of the media organizations you're harvesting for content, by the way, would you please start attributing the articles you take and adding click-throughs? I know it might seem like a minor thing to you, but people like Gluc, Tra, Cresti, MPF, and others (not to mention the other past contributors) all do put in significant work and effort into turning out good content. We make it available for free because we like doing that and it's fun, but if you're going to then take it and rehost it on your site, it'd be much appreciated if you could (at minimum) attribute the articles to their source and put in a way to click through to their origin. This link talks about the ethics involved, if you want more detail. To quote it: This is also mentioned in the TPA ethical guidelines (which I think you actually wrote): Whenever you get to this, it would be appreciated - and I'd imagine that the other organizations from which you harvest content would also like it! Aaaaaaanyway, about the site: It's been about a month, and it's been weeks that we've had multiple solutions. It would take a few minutes, at most, to remove the current feed. If you give me access to that page on the WordPress site, I'll do it immediately, without making any other changes. Or you could give access to someone else who can do it. I mean, I know you have an interest here in promoting your own sites - both the aggregator and ETT - over any possible rivals, but this is rapidly passing the point where you're just amusing yourself, and heading right into outright corruption. Even the Seneschal agrees that the way you have it is unacceptable! |
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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on Apr 12, 2015 7:22:43 GMT -6
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Post by Sevastáin Pinátsch on Apr 12, 2015 8:13:17 GMT -6
Given that there's now way to make the news panel both current and equally representative of all the RSS feeds that it pulls from, the section has been deleted.
Anyone with issues with the Talossan Media Aggregator service standard may wish to familiarize themselves with the Terms of Service and avail themselves of their rights thereof.
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Post by Sevastáin Pinátsch on Apr 12, 2015 8:15:44 GMT -6
You already have Editor access to the site, as you requested some time ago. Contact me privately if there are any problems with logging in. |
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 12, 2015 10:15:37 GMT -6
The terms of service just say that you won't provide click-throughs or attribution, without saying why. There are a lot of really good ethical reasons why you should do so, honestly.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Apr 12, 2015 11:07:13 GMT -6
There are a lot of really good ethical reasons why you should do so, honestly. Not to mention legal. It's kind of a joke to say (as the Aggregator terms of service do) that "inclusion in the Aggregator is voluntary on the part of writers and publisher". How exactly did Quedeir Castiglha volunteer to have El Bravac'ht included, or Dréu Gavarþic'h volunteer to have the Talossan Voice (for which I used to write) included? Someone who did not already know where the Bravac'ht or Voice articles came from would never know those publications existed from reading the Aggregator. Is there no Wordpress aggregator/curation plugin that allows you to create posts aggregated from multiple RSS feeds while identifying which feed a given post came from? |
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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on Apr 12, 2015 15:31:21 GMT -6
You already have Editor access to the site, as you requested some time ago. Contact me privately if there are any problems with logging in. The reset password worked, but it was in my spambox at Gmail. I edited the top of the page. Will work on the bottom later. Is it possible to include content from another page using an include statement of some sort? |
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Post by Sevastáin Pinátsch on Apr 13, 2015 14:01:19 GMT -6
It is an archive, not a conduit. The only way for the service to function as an archive is to make local copies of the material it finds, thereby retaining the stories should the original site disappear.
It does what I hoped it would do, much as the news template did.
It's unfortunate that there's such persistent dissatisfaction with the various projects I've created in my spare time and at no expense to citizens. I will certainly continue to host them and maintain them as time allows, but I'm not certain I will continue to engage here on Witt to the same extent in the year to come.
It would be premature to abandon my citizenship, but I'm beginning to understand why people leave this place. It wears at you. It makes you choose between investing here and in your real life. I suppose I have less time and resources than I should have... or that a successful citizen would realistically need.
I'll continue to budget what I can.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 13, 2015 14:35:16 GMT -6
Well, Sev, I'll be the first to say that being willing to donate your time does not mean you're insulated from criticism, although it does mean that people should probably give you the benefit of the doubt. That's why this conversation started with a polite request, pointing out the problem. It is true that it might be wearing if you refuse to compromise or cede ground in any regard, insisting that either things are done your way or else you'll just take your ball and go home.
You refused to take the option offered by BT and ETT, or the different option offered by the Seneschal (which we said would also be fine), in favor of just deleting the whole section about current Talossan media, for example. That's really unfortunate, since it means that the website for the nation is less useful than it would be, otherwise, and doesn't showcase our vibrant media environment. I guess it really shows us who's in charge, but at a cost to the country.
And now when people make suggestions about the Talossan Media Aggregator (and you might want to change it to Archive, if it's permanently taking all of the content and storing it for its own display), you're refusing to engage on the actual discussed issue.
There are really good ethical reasons why you shouldn't take the content of other sites without their permission, and then put it on your site without attribution and without clickthrough. Sir Cresti points out that there are also good legal reasons - I'd imagine having to do with intellectual property, but for me it's more about the fact that the great people who work on the Beric'ht team with me deserve to be credited for their work! Characterizing that as "persistent dissatisfaction" kind of elides over the actual and quite specific objections.
You act really aggrieved, considering how we're just asking for you to give credit to authors for what they write!
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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on Apr 13, 2015 14:39:36 GMT -6
It's unfortunate that there's such persistent dissatisfaction with the various projects I've created in my spare time and at no expense to citizens. I will certainly continue to host them and maintain them as time allows, but I'm not certain I will continue to engage here on Witt to the same extent in the year to come. It would be premature to abandon my citizenship, but I'm beginning to understand why people leave this place. It wears at you. It makes you choose between investing here and in your real life. I suppose I have less time and resources than I should have... or that a successful citizen would realistically need. I'll continue to budget what I can. And now you can understand what happened to me in June 2004... We really should talk, after all, we are quite close to one another and I beginning to see we are relatively close in how we think... |
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Post by Sevastáin Pinátsch on Apr 14, 2015 8:34:08 GMT -6
You act really aggrieved, considering how we're just asking for you to give credit to authors for what they write! Assuming that the webmaster has correctly configured their site and the software works as it should, the TMA credits authors just fine. In fact, the only site that doesn't seem to work very well is the one that credits all content as authored by "Ivan Aligada", but kludges the problem by adding the author's name to the article title. |
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Apr 14, 2015 9:28:34 GMT -6
Weird... maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. When I look at a post like this, I see that the name of the account used to post the story (which is often the same as the author, on some sites) but I can't click through at all to check the story for updates, attribution, or even to know the name of the publication. Maybe I've just been doing this wrong, and it is possible to find a story's origin, updates, and further attribution? As far as I had thought, the archive just grabs stories from an RSS feed, takes all the content and metadata, and makes a copy for itself - which the authors have lost control over - with no clickthrough or attribution to source. Am I looking in the wrong spot for this stuff or something? |
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Post by Sevastáin Pinátsch on May 3, 2015 7:00:15 GMT -6
Weird... maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. When I look at a post like this, I see that the name of the account used to post the story (which is often the same as the author, on some sites) With any decent CMS software (i.e., not Blogger), the account used to post a story is the same as the author account. The same quality software (i.e., not Blogger) can also be used by the admin to post stories but still attribute authorship to the actual writer, without having to use the article title kludge that BT does. The terms of service promises attribution to the original author, provided that the source material is correctly attributed. That's what it does. Owing to the frequent complaints, BT has been removed from the aggregate per the terms of service. Old material has been deleted and new material will not be polled by the software. Should other author wish their material removed, I'm happy to comply. |
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Post by Marti-Pair Furxheir S.H. on May 3, 2015 7:07:04 GMT -6
Weird... maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. When I look at a post like this, I see that the name of the account used to post the story (which is often the same as the author, on some sites) With any decent CMS software (i.e., not Blogger), the account used to post a story is the same as the author account. The same quality software (i.e., not Blogger) can also be used by the admin to post stories but still attribute authorship to the actual writer, without having to use the article title kludge that BT does. The terms of service promises attribution to the original author, provided that the source material is correctly attributed. That's what it does. Owing to the frequent complaints, BT has been removed from the aggregate per the terms of service. Old material has been deleted and new material will not be polled by the software. Should other author wish their material removed, I'm happy to comply. I hereby give to the Talossan Aggregator explicit permission to reproduce my articles published in BT, provided I am credited as Author and BT credited as publisher. Should BT override my permission, BT and I will need to have a talk... |
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