Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Mar 14, 2015 9:29:20 GMT -6
ok I fixed my translation above in what is hopefully the final version. That was a lot harder than I thought it would be.
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Post by Iustì Carlüs Canun on Mar 14, 2015 18:59:34 GMT -6
One more thing: Regaletz àð üns.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Mar 15, 2015 20:16:14 GMT -6
Ár Avvà, qi'st in el Çèu Q'estadra sanctificada Tu nómina. Qe venadra Tu regipäts Q'estadra afcastat Tu Pedit Sür la tzara Come c'e in el Çèu Regaletz àð üns aceasta ziua ár pà ziueasca Es perzonetz ár destas Come noi perzonent ár desteirs. Es non conduçetz-noi ainciün tentaziun, Mas deliveretz noi del caitivetz. Cair els tuns sint el regipäts, L'elbaracà, es la gloria, àl fin. Amén.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Mar 16, 2015 9:11:42 GMT -6
Question: Some nouns that are possessive such as prayer - arphatreu end in either sè if an owned noun or begin with s' if an owning noun. So would "The Lord's Prayer" be s'Arphatreu or Arphatreu sè? Do I need the article el in front?
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Mar 16, 2015 12:26:15 GMT -6
Question: Some nouns that are possessive such as prayer - arphatreu end in either sè if an owned noun or begin with s' if an owning noun. So would "The Lord's Prayer" be s'Arphatreu or Arphatreu sè? Do I need the article el in front? The possessive particle sè is only used in between two nouns (or noun phrases), to indicate that the first owns the second. It elides to s' when the following noun begins with a vowel. So s'Arphatreu would be used after some other noun to show that l'Arphatreu belongs to the other noun--for example el Glischt Cátgolic s'Arphatreu ("the Catholic Church's Our Father", e.g. to distinguish from the Protestant version). But sè would be used after Arphatreu to indicate a noun that belongs to l'Arphatreu, and would become s' if the following noun begins with a vowel--for example, l'Arphatreu sè mocts ("the Our Father's words") or l'Arphatreu s'autgorità ("the Our Father's authority").
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Mar 16, 2015 12:51:39 GMT -6
so would "The Lord's Prayer" translate into El Domnul se Prexheu or should I just use El Arphatreu?
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Post by Iustì Carlüs Canun on Mar 16, 2015 13:18:40 GMT -6
It's called l'Arphatreu, although I suppose you could use el Dómnul sè Prexheu.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Mar 16, 2015 13:21:40 GMT -6
It's called l'Arphatreu, although I suppose you could use el Dómnul sè Prexheu. Duh...of course it is. I still forget that articles elide when in front of a vowel (which also explains why L'Översteir say's the same thing you just mentioned).
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Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on Mar 20, 2015 6:22:34 GMT -6
... Also, it's a popular misconception that "thou/thee/thy/thine" is formal, since it's used to speak to god, but it's actually informal. It's meant to emphasize that the pray-er has a more personal relationship with the deity... Not entirely. The use of "thee/thou" (etc.) rather that "you/your" (etc.) indicates *singularity* and specifically excludes *plurality*: it is not just the personal relationship, nor the formality/informality, but the single-ness of the addressee that is being encompassed here. "Thou shalt have one God only..."
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Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on Mar 20, 2015 6:27:23 GMT -6
...I might use àl fin instead of schemp... IMHO we need something even longer than àl fin , as this phrase (in the original) speaks of eternity (which has no end), not time (which, perhaps, does have an end). In Latin there is the concept of "ages of ages": do we have the same (or similar) in Talossan? (Or have I, once more, misunderstood? )
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Mar 20, 2015 9:11:06 GMT -6
...I might use àl fin instead of schemp... IMHO we need something even longer than àl fin , as this phrase (in the original) speaks of eternity (which has no end), not time (which, perhaps, does have an end). In Latin there is the concept of "ages of ages": do we have the same (or similar) in Talossan? (Or have I, once more, misunderstood? )I can see both sides of this. It's true that the original is generally understood as referring to an endless eternity, while àl fin literally means "to the end", which is not endless. But àl fin is glossed in the Treisour as "forever", which suggests that its idiomatic meaning is eternal. And similarly, "forever and ever" is an idiomatic rather than strictly literal interpretation of Latin in saecula saeculorum or Greek eis tous aiōnas. So in that sense àl fin could be viewed as a good parallel to the Greek original: the literal meaning when broken down into its component words is different, but the idiomatic interpretation is the same. If you did a word-for-word literal translation of the Greek (probably ainciün la sáicula) it probablywouldn't actually convey the same sense of eternity in Talossan that the Greek phrase does in Greek. On the other hand, if you want to avoid confusion about literal v. idiomatic interpretations, that could be a reason to prefer schemp or iternamint here.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Mar 20, 2015 11:13:36 GMT -6
I originally chose schemp but I also like àl fin. Either one works for me.
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