Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on May 15, 2007 21:41:19 GMT -6
The Provincial Government Unshackling Act (Amendment)
WHEREAS it is greatly to be desired that the political life of Talossa's individual Provinces be made more interesting, competitive, exciting, meaningful, and just plain fun, and
WHEREAS some of the Provinces are much closer to being ready to have interesting, competitive, exciting, meaningful, and just plain fun politics than are others, and
WHEREAS reforms adopted in the past three years have failed to spur provincial activity, and
WHEREAS these departures from historic practice since the adoption of the Organic Law may have even stifled provincial politics by limiting the flexibility and creativity of the provinces in the area of self-government, and
WHEREAS since taking the provinces' freedom away from them didn't make things any better, it may as well be given back, now
THEREFORE the Senäts and Cosâ hereby approve the following amendment to the Organic Law, and transmit it to the populace for ratification.
1. The language "at the same time and with the same rules as the Cosâ general electon and under the direction of the Secretary of State office" is removed from Article XVII, Section 5.
2. Sections 9 through 9e of Article XVII are replaced with the following language:
Section 9. Each Province shall govern itself in such a manner as to guarantee its citizens the full protection of their rights under this Organic Law. Provincial elections may, if so specified in a Province's constitution, be conducted by the Chancery at the same time as elections to the Cosâ, and in accordance with the national election laws and rules. The King shall appoint a Cunstavál (or Constable) for each Province. Until such time as the King or Cunstavál proclaims a provincial constitution providing otherwise, a Province's Cunstavál shall serve as Military Governor and may exercise all the powers of the provincial government. No Cunstavál shall proclaim any provincial constitution or constitutional amendment which:
* Conflicts with any provision of this Organic Law,
* Grants to the King (and consequently to the Cunstavál as the King's representative in the Province) royal powers less extensive than those granted to the King on the national level, except that the provincial royal powers need not include a right of dissolution if provincial elections are held concurrently with Cosâ elections,
* Fails to provide a right to appeal decisions of the provincial court or courts (if any) to the Cort pü Înalt or such other national courts as may be created by the Ziu, or
* In the case of the adoption of a new constitution, is not approved by a referendum in which at least either a majority of all citizens of the province or a two-thirds majority of votes actually cast is in favor of the constitution.
Uréu q'estadra så:
Mick Preston
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Post by Nic Casálmac'h on May 23, 2007 15:14:56 GMT -6
I think this looks good, but there are some things I don't understand. Rather than keep trying to figure it out I decided I would just ask some questions. It seems like I knew this at one point, but I can't remember now.
What does said Cunstavál do once a constitution is in place and an executive officer is elected?
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jun 11, 2007 14:51:42 GMT -6
I thought I had answered this question, but guess I missed it! Once a provincial constitution is in place, the Cunstavál fulfills basically the same role within the province that the King fulfills on a national level. Because the Cunstavál is the King's personal representative within the province. Cunstavál is to provincial executive as King is to Seneschál. That's not really a change from how things currently work. Compare to the Governors-General of Australia, Canada, and New Zealand, or (a closer analogy) the Lieutenant-Governors of the Canadian provinces.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on this issue? Questions? Objections?
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jun 22, 2007 0:07:46 GMT -6
I think more people need to take a close look at this. I have, and plan to vote for it, but it seems the sort of interesting legislation which might have some opponents... if those opponents looked it over thoroughly!
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jul 20, 2007 18:19:10 GMT -6
Anyone have any more questions about this one? Like S:reu Davis says, it's worth looking at carefully. And it'd be nice to get the provincial situation fixed prior to the next general election.
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Danihel Laurieir
Citizen since 7-1981; Count since 2-23-2006
Videbimus Omnes
Posts: 400
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Post by Danihel Laurieir on Jul 20, 2007 20:39:06 GMT -6
Preston's proposal looks good as far as it goes to me.
Throughout its history, Talossa has seen many attempts to make the provinces more fun and relevant, and maybe this proposal, which seeks to give provinces much more autonomy and does so rather simply and elegantly, will do the trick.
I remain skeptical, however, about the value of provinces and provincial politics. And it's not just because the cry for revitalizing the provinces has been such a constant feature in Talossan politics. I also think there's a risk to sub-dividing our political and cultural energies too much. Talossa is a relatively small place and its national-level politics and culture have a cozy, community feel to them.
I guess I don't mind that some Talossans want to provinciate--maybe this is actually something that's postively good (as opposed to be merely harmless)--but I personally find it distracting. (Though, I note in the interests of full disclosure, that once or twice in my time in Talossa I did find provincial politics interesting for short periods.)
In addition to Preston's Provincial Proposal, I'd like to see some other provincial reforms. For example, I'd like to see the provinces divorced from the both the Cosa and the Senats. Both legislative bodies should be national, and not tied to territorial constituencies. This reflects who we are. For one thing, Talossa is not a federated state (like the United States is), and MCs and Senators don't really vote based on representing territorial constituencies. Instead, they represent parties who are elected on the basis of national issues. And this state of affairs is natural and good: after all, we are Talossans first and foremost, aren't we?
I'd also like to see us abanbon the provincial quota system under which citizens are assigned to provinces based on their geographic location in the real world and on the population of the provinces. Why not let people declare their residence in the province of their choice?
I understand that tying a person's real-world location to their provincial assignment is partly intended to heighten the "realism" of the provinces, but our quota system, which attempts to evenly disperse Talossans across all the provinces, already subverts that notion. And consider this: all of us Talossans--no matter where we hail from otherwise--claim to belong to a very small Kingdom, mainly located on the East Side of Milwaukee.
I think as long as we maintain that basic claim (or shall we say that "willful delusion"), we can indulge the notion that we can move about freely within its borders just as the residents of the East Side do. Allowing for this freedom of choice in provincial home might also serve to enliven the provinces.
I'd like to live in the province that's closest to the home where I grew up--in Vuode--because that's my neighborhood. (Currently, according to some bureaucrat's dictum, I am assigned to a dank quonset hut in Maaritiiiiiimie-Maxhjestigic--or whatever it's called.) Others might like to take up residence in some province that's a hotbed of provincial political and cultural activity. Still others might want to move out of provinces named after fascists. I want to go home. Please let me go.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jul 22, 2007 10:13:36 GMT -6
I remain skeptical, however, about the value of provinces and provincial politics. And it's not just because the cry for revitalizing the provinces has been such a constant feature in Talossan politics. I also think there's a risk to sub-dividing our political and cultural energies too much. Talossa is a relatively small place and its national-level politics and culture have a cozy, community feel to them. I think your concerns about subdivision are legitimate. Also, it may be that provinces will never really take off -- that they simply aren't capable of organising the population in suuch a way that people will ever want to talk about or do anything interesting with just citizens of the same province. But if Talossa keeps growing the way it has over the past couple of years, we may someday have enough people and energy in Talossa that provinces will keep Talossa from being overwhelming for newer and less-active citizens. In the past couple of weeks, we had a spurt where Witt was getting 40-50 posts a day (in the summer!). That's getting to the point where an occasional visitor to Witt might find it hard to keep up. On what alternative basis would you organise the Senats? The last idea along the lines of what you propose, if I recall correctly, simply abolished the Senats and made the Ziu unicameral for a while. Personally, I like geographic assignment of citizens. Cezembre is the most successful province of the Cybercit era, and a big reason for that is its geographic orientation. Would Cezembremoots have been possible if citizens of Cezembre were scattered across the globe instead of concentrated in Europe? And TalossaWest might as well be called FlorenciaFest. In a way, I think making these regional gatherings provincial affairs is healthier for national unity. The problems of our provincial system are partly attributable, in my view, to the degree to wich the system departs from its theoretically geographical basis. I would favor loosening or even eliminating the "quota" system, to place more emphasis on regional integrity than population parity. My concern about letting people choose their province is that it would devolve into a "pick me first" popularity contest. E.g., Province X is where all the cool kids are, and Province Y always gets picked last. If you have a quota system to maintain some degree of parity, that just makes the people forced into Province Y unhappy to be there. The way to avoid this, it seems to me, is to make provincial assignment a matter of irresistable fate rather than a matter of individual choice/discrimination (or worse, choice for some and fate for others). How did you become a citizen of M-M, anyways? Was it just that you happened to live in KY when your citizenship was reinstated? Or were you M-M when you last lived in the GTA? |
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Aug 27, 2007 23:34:36 GMT -6
I am waiting for Godot to ask this to be Clarked, btw...
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Aug 30, 2007 12:11:58 GMT -6
I am waiting for Godot to ask this to be Clarked, btw... I don't think he's coming.  No rush to Clark it now that September is no-business, but I'd put it on the October Clark if I were you. So if anyone wants to see any changes to it, speak up. |
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Aug 30, 2007 13:00:14 GMT -6
Why rush it?
I only put it in the Hopper 3 months ago!
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Sept 5, 2007 15:16:30 GMT -6
Don't be hasty.  |
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King John
King of Talossa
Posts: 2,415
Talossan Since: 5-7-2005
Knight Since: 11-30-2005
Motto: COR UNUM
King Since: 3-14-2007
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Post by King John on Sept 5, 2007 16:04:33 GMT -6
Whoa, Alexander, is that *you*? You're taller than I thought.
— John R
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Sept 5, 2007 16:06:03 GMT -6
HA! I knew someone here was a piece of dead wood pretending to contribute!
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Sept 5, 2007 16:11:19 GMT -6
Whoa, Alexander, is that *you*? You're taller than I thought. — John R Pay no attention to my skin in that picture... I need to moisturize. |
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Post by Nicola Damiana Aseria on Sept 5, 2007 17:07:48 GMT -6
Is that a real picture of an Ent from somewhere, or did you draw it personally (or graphically or whatever)? I've never seen an Ent look like that before.
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No rush to Clark it now that September is no-business, but I'd put it on the October Clark if I were you. So if anyone wants to see any changes to it, speak up.
