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Post by Eðo Grischun on May 25, 2010 11:17:30 GMT -6
WHEREAS Statutory Law 37RZ2 clearly defines the term "Micronation" and as a result ongoing arguments regarding what is or is not a Micronation are moot; and,
WHEREAS Statutory Law 25RZ50 prohibits the Government of the Kingdom of Talossa from officially having a relationship with Micronations as defined in 37RZ2; and,
WHEREAS There is a segment of the citizenry of the Kingdom of Talossa that desires permission by the Government to particiapate in micronations, in particular The Republic of Talossa; and,
WHEREAS There is concern regarding trouble that may be caused by the less savoury types of Micronationalist enthusiasts if we simply repeal either of the two aforementioned Statutory Laws; and,
WHEREAS 37RZ2 allows for a "whitelist" of organizations to be held by the Minister of Foreign Affairs which would allow Kingdom citizens to participate in the Republic of Talossa Micronation while still protecting the country from rogue Micronations and Micronationalist enthusiasts while still insulating the Kingdom's Government so not to contravene Statutory Law 25RZ50; now,
THEREFORE be it resolved by the Zui that the Micronation known as "The Republic of Talossa" be added to the "Whitelist" referred to in 37RZ2 by the Minister of Foreign Affairs.
FURTHERMORE the provisions of a) Seneschal approval as defined in 37RZ2 have been met by the Seneschal voting PER on this Bill and b) Petition as defined in 37RZ2 have been met by the passage of this bill by the Zui.
Uréu q'estadra sa;
Éovart Grischun (MC - PPT)
Brenier Tzaracomprada (Senator, MM - PPT)
Flip Molinar (Senator, Benito - PPT)
Tycho Van Die (MC - PPT)
Dréu Gavárþic'h (MC - PPT)
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Post by Breneir Itravilatx on May 25, 2010 11:38:24 GMT -6
Eovart, I would like to cosponsor.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 11:43:15 GMT -6
As I believe being a member of the republic and kingdom to be a conflict of interest, I will be voting no on this bill.
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Flip Molinar
Talossan since 1-1-2008
Proud Talossan
Posts: 1,592
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Post by Flip Molinar on May 25, 2010 11:53:48 GMT -6
Cosponsor.
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on May 25, 2010 12:12:15 GMT -6
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here. To begin with, as I have stated on other threads, I do not see how anyone can possibly claim to be a loyal subject of the King, and also claim not to be, and to in every way deny the Kingdom (and King) to which (and to whom) they have pledged loyalty. Allowing someone to do something that cannot possibly be done doesn't make sense to me. It would be like passing a law allowing people to paint themselves red using blue paint. There's no way to do such a thing. Let's take a look at the situation using simple cold hard logic, using questions that can only be answered either "yes" or "no". Does the Talossan Republic consider itself to be the same kind of thing that the Kingdom of Talossa is? If yes: Is that kind of thing a country / nation / group of people trying to act reasonably like a nation (which I'll abbreviate as "c/n/gopttarlan")?
If yes:
Then how can the Talossan Republic claim every single bit of our territory, and expect us to treat them as friendly? If no:
But we do consider ourselves a c/n/gopttarlan. So we fundamentally disagree with the Talossan Republic about what we are. If no: Well, what do they consider themselves to be? And what do they consider us to be? We’d have to have answers to these before we can figure out whether they’re friendly, inimical, etc.
Or put another way: The Kingdom considers itself to be a c/n/gopttarlan. How should we think of the Talossan Republic? If as a fellow c/n/gopttarlan: then their policy of “annexation” makes them our enemy. (The US would never think of a country that has claimed to annex the entire territory of the US as a friendly nation.)
But we want to be friendly. So it seems, then, that we should think of them... as something other than a c/n/gopttarlan: which means we cannot treat them as equals. The only conclusion we can come to following logic like this is that their actions, deliberately entered into in the face of our telling them that we consider those actions unfriendly, force us either 1) to treat them as something other than a c/n/gopttarlan (and thus not as our equal), or 2) to consider them unfriendly.
Either way, membership in the Talossan Republic while being a citizen of the Kingdom is something that no sane brain can possibly reconcile with itself. The persons who started the Talossan Republic renounced their citizenship in the Kingdom to do so -- they knew right away, and they continue to know, that membership in the Republic is incompatible with being a subject of the King. No member of the Talossan Republic has ever come to the Kingdom asking to become a citizen of the Kingdom while retaining their membership in the Talossan Republic -- they know that there is no way anyone can do such a thing. It's not even that we wouldn't accept them; it's that they would be denying everything that they are claiming to believe. It is extremely strange to me to see citizens of the Kingdom not understanding this, and thinking that someone can hold and be loyal to two completely and absolutely incompatible beliefs at once. The Talossan Republic requires that a person deny the sovereignty of the Kingdom, the rule of Organic Law, and the reign of our King, and the Kingdom of Talossa requires that a person recognise, revere, and protect all of these things loyally. Hooligan |
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on May 25, 2010 12:47:30 GMT -6
I would like to cosponsor.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 12:56:37 GMT -6
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on May 25, 2010 16:55:09 GMT -6
Their Declaration:
"Be it enacted by the authority of the people that Robert Rouergue is hereby deposed from the kingly office within this government and absolutely divested of all its rights, powers, and prerogatives; and that he and his descendants and all persons claiming by or through him, and all other purposes whatsoever shall be and for-ever remain incapable of the same; and that the said office shall henceforth cease and nevermore either in name or substance be re-established within this Republic."
"We, therefore, the representatives of the free provinces of Talossa, in general agreement, assembled, appealing to the will of the people for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by the authority of the good people of these provinces, being Maritiimi-Maxhestic, Cézembre, Maricopa, and Florenciâ, solemnly publish and declare, that this free Talossa is and of right ought to be a free and independent state; that it is absolved from all allegiance to the crown, and that all political connection between it and the House of Rouergue, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as a free and independent state, it may establish a free government, devoid of monarchist trappings, devoid of feudal relationships, devoid of tyranny."
Their Constitution:
"The historic territory of the Talossan nation consists of the land south of Edgewoo
Avenue, east and north of the Milwaukee River, and west of the Talossan Sea, as w
as l'Île Cézembre / Enez Kezember.
In this constitution, "the national territory" shall be taken to mean the jurisdiction
the Talossan Republic, which will be set by act of Parlamînt, subject to approval b
referendum. Any such Act shall specify the precise physical boundaries of the
territory in question."
Their Northern Provinces Reclamation Act:
"Pursuant to the Constitution of the Republic I.1.3, the national territory of the Talossan Republic
and the jurisdiction of its institutions shall be the whole of the historic territory of Talossa, as set out
in Constitution I.1.3(a)."
These are reasons against adding them to a whitelist, since they make claims that incontrovertibly are incompatible with citizenship in Talossa.
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Post by Breneir Itravilatx on May 25, 2010 21:03:45 GMT -6
WHEREAS 37RZ2 allows for a "whitelist" of organizations to be held by the Minister of Foreign Affairs which would allow Kingdom citizens to participate in the Republic of Talossa Micronation while still protecting the country from rogue Micronations and Micronationalist enthusiasts while still insulating the Kingdom's Government so not to contravene Statutory Law 25RZ50; now, THEREFORE be it resolved by the Zui that the Micronation known as "The Republic of Talossa" be added to the "Whitelist" referred to in 37RZ2 by the Minister of Foreign Affairs. This is the most important part of the bill for me. I like it and have yet to see an argument against it. Seneschal Davis and MC Hooligan, I wanted to ask if the current "whitelist" is available for public viewing? |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 5:35:15 GMT -6
It is my understanding there is no current whitelist but one would be created.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on May 26, 2010 5:38:58 GMT -6
Not sure what you mean there V.
If you mean my bill here would create the whitelist...well that may be technically correct.
The whitelist was created by 37RZ2...however if there is nothing on that list at present (which I believe is the case) then, yes, my bill technically creates the first entry on this list.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 5:43:16 GMT -6
Oh right, my mistake, Eovart.
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Ieremiac'h Ventrutx
Former Senator of Florencia ~ Citizen of Talossa
Posts: 990
Talossan Since: 3-1-1997
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Post by Ieremiac'h Ventrutx on May 26, 2010 8:57:50 GMT -6
I think this is beyond a missunderstanding.
There is a reason a cup of coffee has a label "Caution: Contents may be Hot"
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on May 30, 2010 16:14:01 GMT -6
Oh, yo. Definitely put me as a cosponsor.
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