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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on May 22, 2012 12:24:23 GMT -6
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Post by Iustì Carlüs Canun on May 22, 2012 13:30:43 GMT -6
I have a question: In what way is giving Cosa seats to members of one's own party "stuffing the Cosa with cronies"?
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on May 22, 2012 13:39:25 GMT -6
In short, it isn't. However, I suspect you're referring to a similar statement made in our manifesto - a point about having set party lists. By allowing parties to allocate seats willy-nilly, one's party does not grant the electorate the benefit of being able to see who will benefit from their prospective vote. As such, you can thus fill the Cosâ will cronies who haven't necessarily been elected by the Talossan people.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 22, 2012 16:11:32 GMT -6
No-one should sit in the Cosâ who hasn't been given a "thumbs-up" from voters, either personally or as a party.
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on May 22, 2012 17:12:33 GMT -6
For the RUMP, we congratulate our friends across the aisle in the ZRT and look forward to an energetic campaign.
Hooligan
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Post by Iustì Carlüs Canun on May 22, 2012 18:29:37 GMT -6
No-one should sit in the Cosâ who hasn't been given a "thumbs-up" from voters, either personally or as a party. Many of the RUMP's (and most parties', but I'm using the RUMP as an example) active members are in the Cosa. The problem with not being allowed to redistribute seats is: What if someone comes in during, say, the Third Clark, and is just an all-around awesome dude(tte), and the party decides "Hey, this one needs some Cosa seats to reward his/her awesomeness"? This is not to be construed as being against the slate idea. I like it. But it shouldn't tie a party's hands. |
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 22, 2012 19:10:23 GMT -6
Cosâ seats should be in the gift of the voters, not the parties. S:reu Awesomepants can surely wait a few months before he gets a legislative vote. In Canada, if a party elects a new leader they can't just parachute them into the House of Commons, they've got to win a by-election.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on May 22, 2012 19:22:31 GMT -6
Cosâ seats should be in the gift of the voters, not the parties. S:reu Awesomepants can surely wait a few months before he gets a legislative vote. In Canada, if a party elects a new leader they can't just parachute them into the House of Commons, they've got to win a by-election. I disagree. Here in the USA, if a Representative or Senator is unable to complete their term, it is common for the Governor of that State ( that they are from) to name a replacement. It usually is a person from the same Party as the Governor. If we were forced to wait for up to 5 months before we could fill a vacant seat ( since we don't currently have "special" or "by-" elections), then we would be denying the Citizens that voted for that Party full and complete representation in the Cosa / Senate. That is unfair to those that committed a vote during the General Election to be represented fully while important legislation is be considered and voted upon. |
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Post by Bleic'h Ianescu on May 22, 2012 19:35:10 GMT -6
Cosâ seats should be in the gift of the voters, not the parties. S:reu Awesomepants can surely wait a few months before he gets a legislative vote. In Canada, if a party elects a new leader they can't just parachute them into the House of Commons, they've got to win a by-election. A proper direct comparison to Canada and many other Parliamentary democracies, particularly those of commonwealth realms, requires the existence of single member districts. This would be impracticable in our nation where the seats in the legislature outnumber the citizenry. |
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 22, 2012 21:02:50 GMT -6
Here in the USA, if a Representative or Senator is unable to complete their term, it is common for the Governor of that State ( that they are from) to name a replacement. It usually is a person from the same Party as the Governor. Okay, I wouldn't have an issue with provincial execs filling vacancies in the Cosâ or the Senäts, choosing from the members party who vacated the seat. What I have an issue with is them being filled by unelected party bosses. You don't? When were by-elections removed from the OrgLaw? Yeah. Explain how an unelected party boss putting a random newbie of whose jib she likes the cut in the Cosâ represents "the Citizens" in any way? Bob Smitheu might vote ZRT in April but a newbie coming off the boat in July does not represent him. (Hostile takeovers of political parties have happened before in Talossa, both times IIRC by Davron.) Anyway, as usual people are deliberately muddying the waters. The question of who fills Cosâ seats at a general election is separate from who fills casual vacancies in the Cosâ. The ZRT is only interested in debating situation 1 at the moment. |
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on May 22, 2012 21:42:49 GMT -6
"Bob Smitheu".
Cracked me up. :-) Nice!
Hool
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on May 22, 2012 21:52:02 GMT -6
" You don't? When were by-elections removed from the OrgLaw?"
When were they authorized by the OrgLaw ?
Our Citizens vote for a Party - and the Platform that Party presents.
Everyone who votes for that Party has a say in who represents them in the Cosa.
I don't know how other parties select MC's ... but in the RUMP, they ask everyone who voted for the RUMP party who wants seats in the Cosa. Every single person that wants a Seat, is assigned one.
Should a MC resign, again - the party as a whole is asked who wants a Seat.
When a new Citizen joins the RUMP - if they want a Seat in the Cosa, existing members that hold Cosa Seats will give up shares, so that the new person can have an active voice in the Government.
Is this wrong?
The RUMP party has always given any one that voted for the Party in the GE a seat ( or multiple seats) .
Is this wrong?
The RUMP has always listened to those that voted for them in the last GE - giving them seats in the Cosa, adopting ideas they have for new legislation , and making sure that their voices are heard immediately.
Is this wrong?
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Istefan Perþonest
Cunstaval to Fiôvâ; Regent of the University of Talossa
Posts: 1,024
Talossan Since: 2-21-1998
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Post by Istefan Perþonest on May 22, 2012 22:12:12 GMT -6
You don't? When were by-elections removed from the OrgLaw? They were never in it. Okay, I can't prove that; the oldest copy of the OrgLaw I can find dates from Dec. 1, 1999. But it has the same vacancy language as the current OrgLaw, so "They were removed at least four and a half years before the Republic existed." |
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on May 22, 2012 22:18:53 GMT -6
You don't? When were by-elections removed from the OrgLaw? They were never in it. Okay, I can't prove that; the oldest copy of the OrgLaw I can find dates from Dec. 1, 1999. But it has the same vacancy language as the current OrgLaw, so "They were removed at least four and a half years before the Republic existed." ( chuckles) You can't prove it was there! So it must have been never there! |
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on May 22, 2012 22:36:53 GMT -6
" You don't? When were by-elections removed from the OrgLaw?" When were they authorized by the OrgLaw ? Wow, I knew that the Kingdom had replaced the need to know history, but... anyway, in days of old when kings were bold, seats which went vacant in the Cosâ were filled by a by-election, which was just like a general election but only for those seats. This was a punishment for the vacating party, as if a party which had 30% support lost 20 seats, it could probably hope to only win 6 of those back in the by-election. But I only ever read about them in Ár Päts, so maybe they never even made it to the 1997 OrgLaw. Yeah, and that is corrupt because whoever holds the "rights" to the party name gets to name who they like to the Cosâ between elections. The ZRT aims to specify that a "party" is not a blank cheque but a group of citizens. Yep, because it exploits the lack of a secret ballot. GAAAH! Don't shout, I'm deaf in one eyeball now. Seriously, apart from Lord Hooligan the RUMP really seem to be personally annoyed at political opposition. I suppose you're just not used to it. |
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