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Post by Lupulüc "Lupüc" da Fhöglha on Jun 4, 2014 16:39:03 GMT -6
My name is Lupulüc da Fhöglha. If it so please the Squirrel King of Arms, I request the assistance of the College in designing and obtaining arms for myself and my lawful heirs. My favourite colour is red. Here is my idea for my CoA: Gules, a cross or, a wolf passant argent langued and armed sanguine between four maple leaves vert. Here is the wolf I am thinking about (but any other one will do): I would like to thank the College of Arms in advance for helping me with my Coat of Arms. God bless Talossa and God save the King!
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jun 5, 2014 3:09:52 GMT -6
From and for The Royal Talossan College of Arms Azul Lupulüc, As Squirrel Viceroy of Arms, I am pleased to accept your request for assistance in designing arms. I now charge the Penzance Pursuivant, Dean of the College, with assigning one of the Fellows of the College to provide that assistance. Bartleby Pursuivant Squirrel Viceroy of Arms
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jun 5, 2014 9:08:31 GMT -6
Greetings!
As Penzance Pursuivant, Dean of the College, I have asked the Fulbright Fellow to assist you in the granting of your CoA.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Jun 5, 2014 9:26:05 GMT -6
Greetings S:reu da Fhöglha.
I am the Fulbright Fellow and I will be working with you on the design of your arms. I notice you have some very definite ideas on how you would like your arms to look. A couple of things I would like to share with you that in any Coat of Arms, it is technically not feasible nor allowed under the rules of the Royal College of Arms for any blazon to exceed a complexity level of 8. Based on the blazon you provided "Gules, a cross or, a wolf passant argent langued and armed sanguine between four maple leaves vert" you may already have reached the maximum complexity level.
Let me break down the request and I will need some questions answered.
1. you want the field to be gules 2. A cross or on top of the field (is this a division or is it a device?) 3. A wolf passant argent langued and armed sanquine - is this on top of the cross or? 4. Four maple leaves vert - I am assuming you want these in the corners and on top of the gules field?
My first step will be to color a field gules on the escutcheon but I can't proceed unless I know if the cross or is a division or a charge. Another problem I already see is even if the cross or is a division, the argent wolf is on top of it and I can't place metal on top of metal. Also, the vert maple leaves appear to be on top of the gules field and I can't place color on color.
What I will do is each step one at a time. The first thing I will put up is the escutcheon in gules and each step I will add to it.
Let's see how we can make this work for you.
Regards,
Txec dal Nordselva The Fulbright Fellow
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Jun 5, 2014 11:03:10 GMT -6
Greetings again S:reu da Fhöglha,
I have checked your devices against those already in the armororial and your wolf is similar to the arms of Prince Patrick and King Johns. That in and of itself is not an insurmountable problem but there is an even bigger one. You asked that the wolf have a red tongue and red claws. As the wolf will be on a red field, the claws and tongue would not have any contrast with the field. The solution is to change the field color or change the color of the tongue and claws. As the maple leaves are vert (green) this also violates the rules of the College because you can't place a color on top of a color (green on top of red). The maple leaves could be a metal (gold, silver). These are all issues you need to think about because the way it stands now, these arms would not be approved.
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Post by Lupulüc "Lupüc" da Fhöglha on Jun 5, 2014 12:44:59 GMT -6
Greetings again S:reu da Fhöglha, I have checked your devices against those already in the armororial and your wolf is similar to the arms of Prince Patrick and King Johns. That in and of itself is not an insurmountable problem but there is an even bigger one. You asked that the wolf have a red tongue and red claws. As the wolf will be on a red field, the claws and tongue would not have any contrast with the field. The solution is to change the field color or change the color of the tongue and claws. As the maple leaves are vert (green) this also violates the rules of the College because you can't place a color on top of a color (green on top of red). The maple leaves could be a metal (gold, silver). These are all issues you need to think about because the way it stands now, these arms would not be approved. Greeting S:reu dal Nordselva, Thank you for accepting my request! To answer your questions, I present to you a (extremely badly made) draft of what I would like my CoA to be:
I would like the maple leaves to be argent, but I have a question about the wolf: instead of argent, does the colour gray exist in haraldry?
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Jun 5, 2014 14:27:16 GMT -6
Here is the rule the College of Arms follows: II. 4. Contrast – All armory must have sufficient contrast to allow each element of the design to be clearly identifiable at a distance.
Each tincture used in Talossan armory may be depicted in a variety of shades, but contrast is determined by the traditional heraldic categorization of tinctures as colors (dark) and metals (light). The colors are azure, gules, sable, vert, and purpure (blue, red, black, green, and purple). The metals are argent and or (white/silver and yellow/gold).
To answer your question, your wolf would be argent, a metal. Heraldry is not about the visual design of arms but rather about what we term the blazon - the description of the arms. The blazon is what allows armorers and the like to duplicate arms. The individual shades of colors or metals are rather subjective. I can design a wolf that "looks" kind of grey but the armorer, if there were one, might make it a different shade of argent. Also, please try to answer all of my questions so I can proceed in a timely fashion. Here they are again to help you: 1. Is the cross or a division or a charge? (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_the_field for information about divisions and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_(heraldry) for information on charges).
2. I can't place an argent wolf on top of a cross or so how would you like to change this?
3. You asked for the tongue and claws of the wolf to be red (a wolf passant argent langued and armed sanguine) but on a red field it would have no contrast. How would you like this to be fixed?Thank you, The Fulbright Fellow
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Jun 5, 2014 14:33:41 GMT -6
Think of arms as "easily identifiable on the field of battle." Anything like mixed colors etc that make it hard to recognize from a distance don't really fit into traditional heraldy (which is what the College aims to adhere to).
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Post by Lupulüc "Lupüc" da Fhöglha on Jun 5, 2014 17:31:22 GMT -6
1. Is the cross or a division or a charge?
It is a charge (honourable ordinary) What about a wolf of Purpure colour? Langued and armed Argent. Would that work?
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jun 5, 2014 17:53:47 GMT -6
If the wolf is blazoned "proper" it would normally be depicted as gray.
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Post by Lupulüc "Lupüc" da Fhöglha on Jun 5, 2014 21:09:23 GMT -6
If the wolf is blazoned "proper" it would normally be depicted as gray. Actually, that's much better! Let's do that! Thank you for the suggestion!
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Post by Lupulüc "Lupüc" da Fhöglha on Jun 10, 2014 12:54:33 GMT -6
Sooo, how is it coming along?
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jun 10, 2014 13:10:07 GMT -6
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Jun 10, 2014 13:31:51 GMT -6
Sooo, how is it coming along? Considering the request was initiated only 6 days ago, I'd say at a good clip. Have I actually drafted a mock-up for you yet? Sorry, I haven't had many spare moments yet. I will get to this in due time.
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Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Jun 10, 2014 13:32:45 GMT -6
I'd prefer the wolf to not be purpure...that might look kind of odd. I think rendered "proper" is better.
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