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Post by Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on Aug 25, 2013 8:45:40 GMT -6
I just gave a theoretical argument. and i never stated that therevwas any legal backing in talossa for it but what body would elect to pass any rules allowing the body to gbe taken to cort? none. Also the statements from the Ziu is not law. the Acts are i grant you, but not statements. Also i belve but may be incorrect to say that nothing us above the law therefore if the Ziu happens to break the law without making the change legal, how can the body be taken to account? Currently as you are arguing there is no way. Well the corts can give a slap on the wrist and overturn a possition but then its too late and what would stop the Ziu from doing such a thing again? I am mereluy pointing out my opinions on what i think should be and why i belive its justified. Im not arguing law here. Just putting out my opinion. And just because you cannot proscicute due to lack of a peice of paper, does that mean the said act is anymore wrong (hypathetically) than acts that are legislated against?
Also my basis of the war argument was the fiasco of the Iraq war which was technically an illegal war on an inteenation level, as its illegal to go into a country with armed forces to remove the current leader. Unless my inforation is vastly incorrect. But i do not however have a basis for my suggested punishment. And i ment every form on national government hut down completly, with no activity at all for a prescribed period of time. In not saying any of this is currently in law. But it is my opinon on the matter. That is all.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Aug 25, 2013 10:45:20 GMT -6
Also, the example with "Murder is peachy" is nice. Since the Organic Law bars nobody from imposing the death penalty (at least, I have not read anything like it - if it does, please do enlighten me), what happens, if the Ziu were to declare that "crime X is punishable by death"? Or, if it were to declare that "citizen X must die"? It is inherently lawful to do so... Who would prevent anything like that? The Organic Law has a "no cruel or unusual punishments" clause in it somewhere. I'm not able to check the exact Article number right now, but, its in there. So, capital punishment/death penalties are barred by Organic Law. Although, mileage may vary depending on one's interpretation of "cruel and unusual".
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Aug 25, 2013 10:49:13 GMT -6
Capital punishment is not unusual in the US.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Aug 25, 2013 11:10:30 GMT -6
Capital punishment is not unusual in the US. Exactly, which is why I say it's quite open to interpretation.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Aug 25, 2013 16:31:51 GMT -6
Such a suit would be brought against the SoS. After the law were declared inorganic and struck down, the Cort could ask the Ziu to write new election law to replace it. I do not think they could hold the Ziu in contempt if the Ziu failed to meet their deadline, however. Elections would probably not be stopped, but rather the SoS would choose to act in accord with the law that was not struck down.
The Ziu could try to impose the death penalty, although I suspect that (a) civil disobedience would ensure noncompliance and (b) the King would prorogue the Ziu and (c) the Ziu would be then voted out in a landslide.
A bill that just condemns a citizen to death is inorganic, and it would be struck down pretty easily when challenged in Cort.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Aug 25, 2013 16:40:37 GMT -6
Also i belve but may be incorrect to say that nothing us above the law therefore if the Ziu happens to break the law without making the change legal, how can the body be taken to account? Individual members who break the law are prosecuted under that law. If everyone in the Ziu, though, illegally jaywalks, that's not the Ziu doing it - it's just all the individuals. Currently as you are arguing there is no way. Well the corts can give a slap on the wrist and overturn a possition but then its too late and what would stop the Ziu from doing such a thing again? Votes. The Ziu may repeatedly pass, over and over again, laws which are inorganic. There is no penalty to that, nor should there be - as protection against a corrupt Cort. I am mereluy pointing out my opinions on what i think should be and why i belive its justified. Im not arguing law here. Just putting out my opinion. Sure. I disagree, for practical reasons. If the Cort struck down a law the Ziu had passed, and also demanded that the Ziu pass a law which grants the Cort a monthly stipend, the Cort should not be able to hold the Ziu in contempt and impose sanctions for failing to do so. Also my basis of the war argument was the fiasco of the Iraq war which was technically an illegal war on an inteenation level, as its illegal to go into a country with armed forces to remove the current leader. Unless my inforation is vastly incorrect. But i do not however have a basis for my suggested punishment. And i ment every form on national government hut down completly, with no activity at all for a prescribed period of time. In not saying any of this is currently in law. But it is my opinon on the matter. That is all. I question your account, but either way, Talossa is not party to any international treaties and is not subject to any international law. We are not even signatories to treaties of the sea, or the like. The Organic Law is our highest law.
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Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on Sept 2, 2013 5:35:59 GMT -6
Capital punishment is not unusual in the US. Which saddens many other, older, civilizations.
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Sept 2, 2013 7:07:54 GMT -6
Capital punishment is not unusual in the US. Which saddens many other, older, civilizations. The age of civilization has nothing to do with it. The death penalty is an archaic feature in a justice system and not a barbaric innovation.
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Sept 2, 2013 7:18:14 GMT -6
Which saddens many other, older, civilizations. The age of civilization has nothing to do with it. The death penalty is an archaic feature in a justice system and not a barbaric innovation. No one claimed it to be an innovation. It is however a remnant of archaic state forms, and a remnant. It is a barbaric remnant, imposed upon citizens in totalitarian, crazy or similar regimes. (And the U.S. counts as a totalitarian, crazy, god-complexed regime.)
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Sept 2, 2013 7:56:21 GMT -6
The age of civilization has nothing to do with it. The death penalty is an archaic feature in a justice system and not a barbaric innovation. (And the U.S. counts as a totalitarian, crazy, god-complexed regime.) I hope you realize how many people here you have offended by that comment.
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Sept 2, 2013 7:57:45 GMT -6
I do and I am not even sorry.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Sept 2, 2013 12:58:29 GMT -6
There are a lot of negative perceptions of the USA, around the world. It is unfortunate - although it's equally unfortunate how many people delight in making such sweeping condemnations.
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Istefan Perþonest
Cunstaval to Fiôvâ; Regent of the University of Talossa
Posts: 1,024
Talossan Since: 2-21-1998
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Post by Istefan Perþonest on Sept 2, 2013 18:16:30 GMT -6
Yes, those crazy totalitarians of the young civilizations of Japan and India.
It's fascinating to see how the 19th Century European penchant for believing in its superiority to the rest of the world somehow survived the 20th Century into the 21st.
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Post by Magniloqueu Épiqeu da Lhiun on Sept 2, 2013 18:53:02 GMT -6
Who said anything about a European superiority? I talk about humanistic superiority and, quite frankly, people I hear condemning or belittling other nations frequently, are the People of the United States, in most situations. I do not believe you realise how crazy it is to go and decide on just bombing a country without any UN resolution, which the U.S. government is almost bragging about planning to do.
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Post by Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on Sept 2, 2013 20:38:29 GMT -6
The only country that isnt taken seriously wheb comments about other countries are said in a less than complementry way is the Brits, but thats because they know its a joke and we say similar stuff to ourselfs so were not taken seriously. (Fools...)
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