Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă
Puisne (Associate) Justice of the Uppermost Court
Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
Posts: 4,063
Talossan Since: 9-23-2012
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Post by Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă on Jul 10, 2013 22:17:32 GMT -6
Þaraþias, Dr. dal Nordselva. C'e ben estarh aicì. Trei ben!
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Post by Charles Wickersham on Jul 11, 2013 11:51:12 GMT -6
English: Talossan: Latin: Catalan(Just to be different!):
Head Cäps Caput Cap Eyes Uglhen Oculos Ulls Nose Nas Nares Nas Mouth Boca Os Boca Face Faça/Visaxheu Facies/Vultus Cara Shoulders Spaglhas(F)/þumbreux(M) Scapulae/Humeris Esquena Arm Bräts Brachium Braç Leg Gamba Crus Cama Knees Xhenoglhen Genibus Genolls Hand Ma Manus Mà Foot Ped Pedites Peu Finger Dit Digitus Dit Toe Dit Digitus Dit (del peu)
I was very shocked to find that alot of the words for body parts in Talossan were almost identical in Catalan. And several others were very closely related in orthography such as uglhen vs ulls and gamba vs cama, which appear to be simple sound changes, but I dont know much about Catalan pronunciation so they may be almost identical in that respect. As far as Talossan vs Latin, some of the Talossan words look like a shortening of the original Latin: bräts vs brachium, ma vs manus, dit vs digitus, and ped vs pedites. Cataln also shows shortening of the Latin with dit vs digitus, peu vs pedites..etc.
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Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on Jul 11, 2013 17:31:29 GMT -6
Week One - Emotional States Oddly - and happily - it's a bit difficult for me to find Romance languages I don't know, to some extent (yes, I've had an interesting life, and yes, linguistics is one of my hobbies). But I'm only learning Farsi (which is Indo-European - but not Romance), and I don't know Basque at all (and I shall quietly ignore the fact that it's not only not Romance, but not even Indo-European!). I studied Russian for only a year, so I can pretend I don't know it (yes, it's Indo-European; no, it's not Romance). I'm really cheating with the French column - as I speak that reasonably fluently. Hey ho - that's just lost me some marks on my homework. English | Talossan | French | Basque | Russian | Farsi | love | l'amor (m) | l'amour (m & f) | maitasuna | любовь (liubov) | مهر (mehr) | hate | la haßa (f) | la haine (f) | gorroto du | ненависти (nenavisti) | نفرت (nefrat) | affection | l'aðfeziun (f) | la tendresse (f) | maitasuna | привязанности (privyazannosti) | مهربانی (mehrabani) | fear | el timour (m) | la peur (f) | beldurrari | страх (strakh) | ترس (tars) | joy | l'aleretza (f) | la joie (f) | poza | радость (radost) | خوشی (khoshi) | happiness | la felicità (f) | le bonheur (m) | zoriona | счастья (schastya) | خوشحالی (khoshhali) | unhappiness | la sventüra (f) | le malheur (m) | zorigaitzaren du | несчастья (neschastya) | بد بختی (bad bakhti) | sorrow | el mairour (m) | le chagrin (m) | mina du | скорби (skorbi) | غم (gham) | melancholy | --- | la mélancolie (f) | malenkonia | меланхолия (melankholiya) | مالیخولیا (malikhouliya) | boredom | l'enuxhità (f) | l'ennui (m) | --- | скуки (skikee) | ملالت (malalat) | ecstasy | l'arapamaintsch (m) | le revissement (m) | lortu du | экстаза (ekstaza) | وجد (vajd) | misery | la fraína (f) | la misère (f) | miseria | страдания (stradaniya) | بد بختی (bad bakhti) | expectation | l'expectaçal (m) | l'espérance (f) | esperantza du | ожидание (ozhidani-e) | انتظار (antasar) |
(I have included the definite article in both the French and Basque. Russian doesn't have a definite article - why you need this, eh?)Our Persian friends seem not to distinguish misery from unhappiness, but it would appear that the Basques are never bored, and the Talossans never melancholy. (Or that my dictionaries are lacking).
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jul 12, 2013 4:01:08 GMT -6
English Talossan Latin Spanish Mother Matra Mater Madre Father Patreu Patrem Padre Sister Soror Sororem Hermana Brother Fratreu Frater Hermano Aunt Tanta Amita Tia Uncle Vucul Avunculus Tio Grandmother Ama Avia Abuela Grandfather Apa Avo Abuelo Cousin Cuzina/Cuzin Patruelis Primo Husband Espoceu Maritus Marido, esposo Wife Uschor Uxorem esposa Daughter Figlha Fila Hija Son Figheu Eius Hijo Family Famiglha Familiam Familia Parents Patreux Parentes los Padres Sibling Agna Sibling hermano/hermana Granddaughter Neftiglha Neptis nieta Grandson Neps Nepos nieto Nephew Nepot Nepos sobrino Niece Niepta Neptis Sobrina When I decided on my Romance Language for this particular assignment I originally chose Spanish. Well looking at the words I was getting from the Google Translator I was shaving a hard time seeing the connection, some words are similar and others are way off. So I decided to translate my list to Latin as well. The Talossan to Latin was very similar on most words. It shows very clearly how Talossan has come from Latin roots and how some of the Spanish has gone very far from Latin. Spanish has some vocabulary showing how far it has evolved from Latin, much of it derived from Arabic words borrowed during the centuries of Moorish occupation after the collapse of the Roman Empire. French, in comparison, has a lot of Germanic borrowings due to post-Roman invasions by Germanic tribes and proximity to German-speaking nations. Another source of vocabulary difference between Romance languages is differing "substrates." A substrate is an underlying language that was replaced by the language currently spoke in a given area, but that leaves behind traces in the current language. Substrate words in a Romance language are evidence not of how much the language has changed from Latin, but the degree to which Latin did not completely oust the local native language in the first place. But perhaps the biggest source of vocabulary differences between Romance languages is simply that different Latin synonyms took root as the dominant word for a different thing in different parts of the Roman Empire as Late Latin or Vulgar Latin started to break up into different languages. And that in fact is the source of most of the disparities in your list. For example, frater and soror are the classic Latin words for brother and sister, but Spanish hermano/hermana come from Latin germanus/germana, another word used to refer to siblings (sometimes in the phrases frater germanus and soror germana, meaning full siblings -- sharing both parents). Nepos is a Greek word for nephew borrowed by Latin, but Spanish sobrino comes from Latin sobrinus, which was originally a word for cousins. Primo comes from Latin primus, meaning "first," and was originally part of the phrase "consobrinus primus" (first cousin). Esposo/esposa come from Latin sponsus/sponsa, meaning bride/groom, tío comes from Latin thius (a word for uncle borrowed from Greek, like nepos), and abuelo/abuela incorporate a Latin diminutive suffix. And several others were very closely related in orthography such as uglhen vs ulls and gamba vs cama, If I recall correctly, uglhen was actually uglhs until 2007, putting it into the "differing only in orthography" category.
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Txosuè Pologn
Talossan since 11-04-2012
Veritas et Fidelitas
Posts: 99
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Post by Txosuè Pologn on Jul 13, 2013 11:54:53 GMT -6
English | Talossan | Catalan | German | Latin | January | Januar | Gener | Januar | Ianuarius | February | Fevraglh/Schevraglh | Febrer | Februar | Februarius | March | Marta/Març | Març | März | Martius | April | Avríu | Abril | April | Aprilis | May | Mai | Maig | Mai | Maius | June | Gün | Juny | Juni | Iunius | July | Julia | Juliol | Juli | Iulius | August | Guscht | Agost | August | Augustus | September | Setemvar/Cäpstanneu | Setembre | September | September | October | Listopäts | Octubre | Oktober | October | November | Noemvar | Novembre | November | November | December | Zecemvar | Decembre | Dezember | December | Red | Roxh/Orafuglh | Vermell | Rot | Byrrus | Black | Priet/Negreu | Negre | Schwarz/Noir | Nigrum/Niger | Gold | Or | Or | Gold | Aurum |
I included German on the list to highlight the Germanic influences on Talossan. I'm happy that I did, as in the names of the months, I feel like there's more Germanic than Latin. That said, you can clearly see the heavy influence/descent of Latin in all of these words. Some of them also show a sort of putting-together of a Latin and Germanic part. I may be off on this, but the ending -var strikes me as Nordic, and may perhaps show a third influence from the migration of the language. All in all this was a very fun and enlightening assignment. It's great to get to see the development of Talossan through the various European languages, but it's also great to see the connections between the other languages. For instance, I know this is a very limited list, but even so, I didn't expect to see so many direct similarities between German and Catalan.
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Post by Béneditsch Ardpresteir, O.SPM. on Jul 14, 2013 2:14:00 GMT -6
ENGLISH | TALOSSAN | FRENCH | ITALIAN | SPANISH | GERMAN | gold | or | or | oro | oro | gold | yellow | vermel | jaune | giallo | amarillo | gelb | silver | erxhent | argent | argento | plata | silber | white | biançéu | blanc | bianco | blanco | weiß | blue | bléu | bleu | blu | azul | blau | red | roxh | rouge | rosso | rojo | red | green | virt | vert | verde | verde | grün | black | priet | noir | nero | negro | schwarz | brown | braneu | brun | rosolare | marrón | braun | purple | purpül | pourpre | viola | púrpura | lila | ermine | ermina | hermine | ermellino | armiño | Hermelin |
Germanic words of gold, silber, weiß, red and grün are very similar to the respective English colours, although the rest do not follow the pattern in respect of these colors. White, Blue, Red, Green, Black and Purple have similar words in French, Spanish and Italian, but they are distinct from the English variant.
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Jul 14, 2013 7:02:12 GMT -6
ENGLISH | TALOSSAN | FRENCH | ITALIAN | SPANISH | GERMAN | brown | braneu | brun | rosolare | marrón | braun |
May I correct you, if you don't mind? The Italian word for "brown" is "marrone". "Rosolare" is a verb and means "to fry slightly". Also, if you want to keep the "brown/braneu/brun/braun" pattern, "bruno" is an Italian synonym of "marrone" (it's mostly used for hairs and eyes)
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Post by Ián B. Anglatzarâ on Jul 14, 2013 8:35:19 GMT -6
ENGLISH | TALOSSAN | FRENCH | ITALIAN | SPANISH | GERMAN | brown | braneu | brun | rosolare | marrón | braun |
May I correct you, if you don't mind? The Italian word for "brown" is "marrone". "Rosolare" is a verb and means "to fry slightly". Also, if you want to keep the "brown/braneu/brun/braun" pattern, "bruno" is an Italian synonym of "marrone" (it's mostly used for hairs and eyes) And "red" isn't the German word for red.
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Post by Aspra Roseta Laira on Jul 14, 2013 10:07:45 GMT -6
Late and incomplete. I am having orthography issues. I wanted to look up nouns found in the Fleetwood Mac song, but only came up with three nouns (with the exception of pronouns): tusk, phone, throne ... Latin wouldn't have a good word for phone, wich leaves me with two words. What a bad student!
English Talossan Spanish German Latin tusk Stoetanneau Colmillo Lumb Dens Throne Tgroneau Trono Thron Thronus
Why such discrepancy in the word "tusk"? I found this surprising.
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jul 14, 2013 10:53:56 GMT -6
May I correct you, if you don't mind? The Italian word for "brown" is "marrone". "Rosolare" is a verb and means "to fry slightly". Also, if you want to keep the "brown/braneu/brun/braun" pattern, "bruno" is an Italian synonym of "marrone" (it's mostly used for hairs and eyes) This goes to show how mechanical translation (using Google or the Oversteir) is subject to idiomatic uses of a word. In English, the word "brown" is indeed used as a verb to indicate "slight frying". My post earlier on this thread concerning the way English also uses some other colours as nouns (instead of adjectives) -- such as "reach the green", "in the red/black", etc. -- provides other examples of how some languages use words for things where other languages do not. Avoiding these kind of traps when translating something is often hard (and nearly impossible when translating only a single word, as you are all doing in this exercise). For example, when translating the whole sentence "The recipe called for the cook to brown the onion", it can be difficult to remember that you probably should not translate the exact English words, but instead first (in your mind) change the sentence to something like "The recipe indicated that the chef should lightly fry the onion." Hool
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jul 14, 2013 10:55:59 GMT -6
Late and incomplete. I am having orthography issues. I wanted to look up nouns found in the Fleetwood Mac song, but only came up with three nouns (with the exception of pronouns): tusk, phone, throne ... Latin wouldn't have a good word for phone, wich leaves me with two words. What a bad student! English Talossan Spanish German Latin tusk Stoetanneau Colmillo Lumb Dens Throne Tgroneau Trono Thron Thronus Why such discrepancy in the word "tusk"? I found this surprising. Wow, she's absolutely right; there are only three nouns in Fleetwood Mac's entire song, "Tusk"! Who knew? As for why Talossan's word for "tusk" differs so much from the others, my belief is that Talossan drew it from a Scandanavian root (Cresti, am I right?). As for why Spanish, German, and Latin ALSO differ from each other so wildly on that word, let's (once again) get Cresti to answer. :-) Hool
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jul 14, 2013 15:03:26 GMT -6
As for why Talossan's word for "tusk" differs so much from the others, my belief is that Talossan drew it from a Scandanavian root (Cresti, am I right?). As for why Spanish, German, and Latin ALSO differ from each other so wildly on that word, let's (once again) get Cresti to answer. :-) Correct on stötanneu: it's from Norwegian støttann. The Latin word given for tusk appears to be the standard word for tooth (the root of English dental). Other Latin words that might be used to refer to a tusk are cornu (which also means horn) or ebur (ivory). Spanish colmillo apparently comes from Latin columella, "little column," so it's descriptive in origin. But other Romance languages have very different words for tusk: catirón in Aragonese, ullal in Catalan, and défense in French. French seems pretty obvious, but I have no idea where the others came from.
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Post by Iustì Carlüs Canun on Jul 14, 2013 20:48:21 GMT -6
Iason Taiwos asked me to turn his in for him, since he's confined to his cellphone for Witt access. The theme is, according to him, "Marx Brothers movie titles which consist solely of nouns."
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Jul 15, 2013 3:51:03 GMT -6
The theme is, according to him, "Marx Brothers movie titles which consist solely of nouns." Yeah, I'm not surprised.
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Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Jul 15, 2013 4:57:29 GMT -6
English | French | Spanish | Italian | Talossan | freedom | liberté | libertad | libertà | livertà | equality | égalité | igualdad | uguaglianza | equalità | gavel | marteau | mazo | martelletto | martal | democracy | démocratie | democracia | democrazia | democraçù | election | élection | elección | elezione | eleziun | leader | leader | líder | duce | duceu | journalist | journaliste | periodista | giornalista | xhurnalistà | politician | politicien | político | politico | politic | spectator | spectateur | espectador | spettatore | tigoharén | hall | salle | sala | sala | sala |
So there are quite a few similarities between Italian and Talossan. Notably the use of the letter 'z' as opposed to "c" in Spanish and French. Talossan tends to use "-iun" instead of "-ione" (Italian); often words bear no similarity to their English counterparts, but seem to incorporate characteristics from a variety of Romance languages. Notably, the word for hall (as in lounge, chamber etc.) is very similar, if not the same in the case of Spanish-Italian-Talossan translations. [Apologies for the late entry, I've been crazily busy with political activities in my own macronational country]
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