Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
|
Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Sept 12, 2013 9:34:30 GMT -6
In that this request has had no activity for over two weeks, I am declaring this inactive until further notice.
|
|
|
Post by Xherált Ups Cantoûr on Sept 15, 2013 13:37:18 GMT -6
I have been waiting for a response.
|
|
Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
|
Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Sept 15, 2013 14:24:39 GMT -6
Sorry about that -
I have no idea what he means by a "Cantor Stick". I'll see where the Jolly Good Fellow has gone.
|
|
|
Post by Béneditsch Ardpresteir, O.SPM. on Sept 17, 2013 14:06:47 GMT -6
The problem is that I found something called like a 'cantor stick' - a long pole like element that chief church singers carried... but cant find the reference...
Have been a bit busy lately and couldn't concentrate on Talossan affairs... am very much present.
I'll get back asap...
|
|
|
Post by Xherált Ups Cantoûr on Sept 19, 2013 16:24:10 GMT -6
No problem, take your time. I just didn't want the request to be terminated
|
|
|
Post by Béneditsch Ardpresteir, O.SPM. on Dec 14, 2013 10:02:50 GMT -6
If your look at this page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor_(church) and scroll down to Catholic Cantors, its mentioned - "The cantor's locality in the church is most generally to the right of the choir, and directly to his left is his assistant, formerly called the "Succentor". A common custom for cantors was the bearing of the staff, which was the mark of his dignity and a visual representative of his sacred role inside the church. This custom still survives in some places." So I guess a 'staff' can be styled as a 'Cantor Staff'... I guess this was the thing I found out long ago (but am sure it was from a different source)
|
|
|
Post by Xherált Ups Cantoûr on Dec 14, 2013 23:14:42 GMT -6
That sounds interesting.
|
|
|
Post by Béneditsch Ardpresteir, O.SPM. on Dec 24, 2013 14:03:25 GMT -6
So should I start working around it and seek the approval of the College on the use of the staff as Cantor stick? and what else would you like? Please refer to earlier posts too.
|
|
Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
|
Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Dec 24, 2013 16:02:50 GMT -6
I would ask if you can find references to a "Cantor Stick" used in a previous Coat of Arms , or a representation of the Device used in Heraldry.
I'm not sure what one even looks like, much less if it has been used. Perhaps some historical Heraldry notes on it would he helpful?
|
|
|
Post by Béneditsch Ardpresteir, O.SPM. on Dec 25, 2013 13:05:22 GMT -6
@ Capt.: Pilgrim's staff has been used... so if a Cantour's staff is also allowed, I think there would be no harm... and it'll be rated high on TCF + it'll be real canting. You are the boss... you decide... but if you are not really convinced, pleas ask the SKA & the King once. [I'll not be available till the 2nd. it seems ]
|
|
Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
|
Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Dec 25, 2013 15:40:21 GMT -6
It appears that the cantor's staff (aka prior's staff) can at least be found in ecclesiastical heraldry, as seen discussed here. I wouldn't be surprised if it's more common in French than English heraldry. Could be a cool charge to use here.
|
|
Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
|
Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Dec 25, 2013 20:00:37 GMT -6
@ Capt.: Pilgrim's staff has been used... so if a Cantour's staff is also allowed, I think there would be no harm... and it'll be rated high on TCF + it'll be real canting. You are the boss... you decide... but if you are not really convinced, pleas ask the SKA & the King once. [I'll not be available till the 2nd. it seems ] I wasn't meaning to imply that it wouldn't be allowed. I was asking for examples, so we can duscus what we should use, how to emblazon it, if the petitioner suggests, etc. And, as usual I will with my fellow Pursuivant , and our Squirrel King, and the Blanc Wolf on all CoA's. I am the one that presents the 1st draft of the CoA to the Squirrel King for discussion. Also, purely for protocol purposes, you should probably use my title of "Dean" here.
|
|
Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
|
Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Dec 25, 2013 20:10:40 GMT -6
It appears that the cantor's staff (aka prior's staff) can at least be found in ecclesiastical heraldry, as seen discussed here. I wouldn't be surprised if it's more common in French than English heraldry. Could be a cool charge to use here. I appreciate that example, Bartleby Pursuivant. That gives us a starting point. Previously, The Jolly Good Fellow made this statement: "You are ‘Cantor’, you sing, and you love music – so MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS can define your love. Or you may choose the ‘CANTOR STICK’. We have used harps and violins in the past, so musical instruments won't be a problem." This would lead us to understand the desire was to reflect a reference to the Judaic interpretation of Cantor. In Judaism, a cantor - also known as a "chazzan" or "hazzan" - is the person who leads the congregation in prayer along with the rabbi. The position of cantor is significant because music plays a major role in Jewish prayer services. In the example that you provided, it appears that the "Cantor" Stick is "more a One of the lesser known and, indeed, lesser used external ornaments in ecclesiastical heraldry is the Prior’s Staff, sometimes called the Cantor’s Staff. Like the crozier of bishops and abbots it has its origin in the staff used by pilgrims as a walking stick." ( This is why I ask for references and examples, btw). So, now we need to get back to the petitioner to see which interpretation he is more conformable with, if either.
|
|
|
Post by Béneditsch Ardpresteir, O.SPM. on Dec 25, 2013 22:09:43 GMT -6
"At one time Precentors or First Cantors were in charge of music for the chapter and cathedral and actually used this long staff to conduct the choir. It’s easy to see how from there it became a symbol of their office. This type of staff was also used to direct ceremonies."
My bad for co-relating it with musical instruments, but nevertheless it was (and is) part of the musical congregations.
[prob'ly the last post before I leave]
|
|
|
Post by Xherált Ups Cantoûr on Dec 29, 2013 20:29:40 GMT -6
I still think that it would be something interesting to see.
|
|