Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Sept 1, 2012 19:09:52 GMT -6
Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Sept 1, 2012 19:09:52 GMT -6
I am disappointed having discovered that this is essentially an Internet club -- there is no real politics to speak of. People don't want change and they don't want political debate. I'm not dropping out, but I don't see a reason to involve myself either. The main reason I'm sticking around is that dozens of people voted ZRT and I owe them at least until the next election. And you were so keen to be Senator from Fiôvâ that you owe us for, what, two years is it? Sorry ;D If we really feel the urge for politics, we can crank it up in Fiôvâ, have debates in the GA, all that stuff we used to do in the Republic... why not?
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Sept 2, 2012 2:29:59 GMT -6
Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Sept 2, 2012 2:29:59 GMT -6
if you ZRT folks are interested in spurring political debate, you can always propose some of the bills on which your party campaigned. That would be one immediate thing you could do to spur political debate, if that's what you're interested in seeing. While you might not be interested in actually doing the work required to instituting a code of law (will eventually be possible thanks to our scribes' hard work though!), you could pretty easily write a bill repealing the Semi-Permeable Wall Act and the What's the Difference Act, and another one mandating a mandatory list of candidates. The term of government is almost a third done, but there's plenty of opportunity to do things and engage in political dispute, if that's what you're interested in.
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Sept 2, 2012 3:00:51 GMT -6
Post by D. N. Vercáriâ on Sept 2, 2012 3:00:51 GMT -6
I am disappointed having discovered that this is essentially an Internet club -- there is no real politics to speak of. People don't want change and they don't want political debate. I'm not dropping out, but I don't see a reason to involve myself either. The main reason I'm sticking around is that dozens of people voted ZRT and I owe them at least until the next election. And you were so keen to be Senator from Fiôvâ that you owe us for, what, two years is it? Sorry ;D Maybe he chose to represent the lazy slack-cutting faction of Fiôvâ, in this representative democracy. Btw., it's only one year, because of an exception. Next Senator elections in Fiôvâ are due in 2013.
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Sept 2, 2012 3:54:44 GMT -6
Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Sept 2, 2012 3:54:44 GMT -6
if you ZRT folks are interested in spurring political debate, you can always propose some of the bills on which your party campaigned. That would be one immediate thing you could do to spur political debate, if that's what you're interested in seeing. While you might not be interested in actually doing the work required to instituting a code of law (will eventually be possible thanks to our scribes' hard work though!), you could pretty easily write a bill repealing the Semi-Permeable Wall Act and the What's the Difference Act, and another one mandating a mandatory list of candidates. The term of government is almost a third done, but there's plenty of opportunity to do things and engage in political dispute, if that's what you're interested in. There's still time, S:r Davinescu. A lot of us need to take it easy at times because we've been keeping the Republic afloat single-handedly for quite some time. We will propose such reforms, but we are not going to rush things.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Ping!
Sept 2, 2012 4:08:46 GMT -6
Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Sept 2, 2012 4:08:46 GMT -6
Alex, increasingly it becomes clear that almost everything worth having a serious political debate about in Talossa is in the OrgLaw and therefore would require much more than a simple majority in an election - far away as that might seem by now - to change. Even if the RUMP were to crash out of existence next time, the left-over Senators could easily stymie any real change for a year or two. This might be the reason why opposition parties have lost patience and given up through the post-KR1 era.
What you are seeing is the ZRT trying to think up a long-term strategy since the short term "man the barricades" stuff is a waste of effort.
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Sept 2, 2012 5:08:06 GMT -6
Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Sept 2, 2012 5:08:06 GMT -6
if you ZRT folks are interested in spurring political debate, you can always propose some of the bills on which your party campaigned. That would be one immediate thing you could do to spur political debate, if that's what you're interested in seeing. While you might not be interested in actually doing the work required to instituting a code of law (will eventually be possible thanks to our scribes' hard work though!), you could pretty easily write a bill repealing the Semi-Permeable Wall Act and the What's the Difference Act, and another one mandating a mandatory list of candidates. The term of government is almost a third done, but there's plenty of opportunity to do things and engage in political dispute, if that's what you're interested in. There's still time, S:r Davinescu. A lot of us need to take it easy at times because we've been keeping the Republic afloat single-handedly for quite some time. We will propose such reforms, but we are not going to rush things. Oh, of course. Like I said, it's only a third of the way through, so you have plenty of time. I just noticed this thread and saw some of y'all itching to do some politics-type stuff, and thought of that one avenue. I didn't mean to rush you... after all, there are about 120 days left to propose legislation! Not a lot of oncoming deadlines. I can't imagine the stress of trying to keep the Republic going on such a small team, so you guys have well earned some rest, if that's what you want. Alex, increasingly it becomes clear that almost everything worth having a serious political debate about in Talossa is in the OrgLaw and therefore would require much more than a simple majority in an election - far away as that might seem by now - to change. Even if the RUMP were to crash out of existence next time, the left-over Senators could easily stymie any real change for a year or two. This might be the reason why opposition parties have lost patience and given up through the post-KR1 era. What you are seeing is the ZRT trying to think up a long-term strategy since the short term "man the barricades" stuff is a waste of effort. If that's what you're worried about, I don't think that any of the planks of that four-item proposal you guys had would required an amendment, except the secret vote (and the RUMP already proposed and passed a bill for that - it's not so hard!) Neither the Semi-Permeable Wall or the What's the Difference Act are Organic at all, so it only requires a simple act of the Ziu to repeal them. And of course the excellent proposal to replace the current statutes with a code is obviously also statutory in nature. A case might be made that an amendment is needed for mandatory party lists, but it doesn't seem like it to me. What are the things that you want to address that you feel like you can't?
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Sept 2, 2012 14:37:50 GMT -6
Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Sept 2, 2012 14:37:50 GMT -6
The entire electoral system is in the OrgLaw, for a start. We won a majority in the Cosâ to reduce the maximum number of seats-per-MC, but not the 2/3 required - and anyway, it got bulldozed in the quasi-democratic Senäts.
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Sept 2, 2012 15:52:16 GMT -6
Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Sept 2, 2012 15:52:16 GMT -6
It's true that the electoral system cannot be changed within the span of a Clark - I think that's a good thing, really, because it stops a party from cementing a temporary victory into a permanent one. But probably a mixture is best, where the most important elements are assured in the Orglaw and the exact mechanics are left to statute. That's mostly the case right now ("the amount of this fee will be fixed by law", etc) but I'm sure there are ways it could be improved. I do think that the number of seats to be held in the Cosa could safely be left to statute, for example.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Ping!
Sept 2, 2012 16:45:43 GMT -6
Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Sept 2, 2012 16:45:43 GMT -6
It's true that the electoral system cannot be changed within the span of a Clark - I think that's a good thing, really, because it stops a party from cementing a temporary victory into a permanent one. Yes, it's certainly refreshing that no-one can achieve a permanent political dominance in Talossa. Would the RUMP, then, be prepared to co-operate on a bill with the ZRT to move most of the mechanics of the electoral system to statute law, leaving only broad principles and bottom-line safeguards in the OrgLaw?
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Sept 2, 2012 17:00:31 GMT -6
Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Sept 2, 2012 17:00:31 GMT -6
Would the RUMP, then, be prepared to co-operate on a bill with the ZRT to move most of the mechanics of the electoral system to statute law, leaving only broad principles and bottom-line safeguards in the OrgLaw? Some of those of us that dissented against the Bill ( to redefine the number of MC Seats that a single person could hold ) were not adverse to the concept, but the implementation or wording of that Bill. I can't speak for the whole party, but I know that I for one would vote for a reduction of MC seats per person. HOW it is done is my concern, not THAT it's done.
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Sept 2, 2012 18:07:50 GMT -6
Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Sept 2, 2012 18:07:50 GMT -6
Yes, it's certainly refreshing that no-one can achieve a permanent political dominance in Talossa. The only time in modern Talossa that an opposition party strongly contested two elections in a row, when Owen Edwards led the PP, they were within a handspan of victory. The ZRT, a party brand-new to the country's voters (if not new in a historical sense) got almost a third of the vote, and the RUMP majority is only by nine seats in the Cosa. The problem for other parties is just that they have to keep re-introducing themselves as they change names and leaders, frequently. Would the RUMP, then, be prepared to co-operate on a bill with the ZRT to move most of the mechanics of the electoral system to statute law, leaving only broad principles and bottom-line safeguards in the OrgLaw? I can't speak for the party on this matter, but I certainly would.
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Sept 3, 2012 15:59:45 GMT -6
Post by Jum Txec Tric'hardsëfiglheu on Sept 3, 2012 15:59:45 GMT -6
(drops a pin to break the silence) It seems the dissolution of the Republic did not cure the 'summer doldrums' phenomenon
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Sept 3, 2012 21:42:49 GMT -6
Post by Audrada Rôibeardét on Sept 3, 2012 21:42:49 GMT -6
I always called it Hiatus. And since I did I assumed everyone else did, too. You know, to be cool like me. ;D
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Sept 4, 2012 2:27:03 GMT -6
Post by D. N. Vercáriâ on Sept 4, 2012 2:27:03 GMT -6
Hiatus, doldrums, no matter how we're calling it, apparently the dropping pin woke us up and still in pyjamas we instantly dived into our favourite pasttime - political debate!
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Sept 4, 2012 2:29:12 GMT -6
Post by C. Carlüs Xheraltescù on Sept 4, 2012 2:29:12 GMT -6
Just needed time to recharge; we all need a break sometimes, especially after an election!
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