Istefan Perþonest
Cunstaval to Fiôvâ; Regent of the University of Talossa
Posts: 1,024
Talossan Since: 2-21-1998
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Post by Istefan Perþonest on Jul 29, 2012 0:58:00 GMT -6
Thanks. I think it's all done, and there is only one interesting question I was unable to answer...who was the first Senator for what is now Benito province?? Does anyone know? There may not have been one even nominally in office at all for the first two Clarks. This was a little bit before my time, so I don't have direct memories, but I can try some historical reconstruction. 1) The original 1997 OrgLaw established that the method of determining Senators would be decided by a referendum in each province, the voters of the province choosing between whether the province would hold elections or have its Senator appointed by the government. 2) Ár Päts (on the last page of by my c.1998 hardcopy; later versions seem to have edited this somewhat) says after the July 1997 referendum establishing the OrgLaw, two provinces deadlocked on how to select Senators. AP doesn't specify the provinces. The Cort ordered them to fill the seats by elections, but the national SoS refused to hold them on the grounds the OrgLaw didn't allow such interference. 3) Matthias Muth was, at the time, early in his 99-year term as absolute dictator of Mussolini. 4) I vaguely recall the c.1998 Mussolini constitution providing for appointment of Senators by the government. (I wouldn't be too surprised if the memory is false, but it holds my balance of probability.) So, my best guess as to how things went down was that there was no election for Senator from Mussolini in August 1997. Whether Matthias Muth appointed himself before the first Clark (and thus lost his seat for inactivity and then reappointed himself to fill it), or whether he waited until sometime later to appoint himself for the first time, he would have been the province's first Senator.
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jul 29, 2012 11:44:44 GMT -6
Thanks, Istefan! I will add all this to the notes on that Wikipage (if you have not already!)
Hool
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Post by Xheneta Britxind on Jul 31, 2012 15:19:44 GMT -6
Registered: XB
I should probably sign up for the editing class, as my wiki experience has consisted mostly of correcting spelling and grammar errors, rather than constructing pages.
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Jul 31, 2012 16:34:34 GMT -6
I see someone beat me to getting you all approved, Xheneta! Thanks for helping out!!
I'm finding I am virtually LIVING in the Wiki lately, trying to pour content from kingdomoftalossa.net (and my brain and memory, and those of others I am tapping) into it, so that kingdomoftalossa.net can be emptied and retired in preparation for the Brave New World.
There is so much to do, so much history to make sure we have (and have unbiased, which, thanks to you-know-who, is something we cannot currently say of some pages on kingdomoftalossa.net; I spend a lot of time "de-Benning"). Too many pages are getting short shrift (witness the current state of the page for someone as famed and important as Gödafrïeu Válcadác'h!!) as I race to fill in page after page of our common history and culture!
Everyone pitch in! The Wiki is great; let's make sure it's not incomplete!
Hool
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Post by Xheneta Britxind on Aug 9, 2012 19:50:32 GMT -6
Can I quote from the Kingdom of Talossa site when constructing pages? This may be problematic since the pages don't usually state an author.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Aug 9, 2012 20:25:11 GMT -6
Yes, you can. All content of KoT.net sites is already the property of the Kingdom, and can be freely transferred.
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Aug 10, 2012 10:15:59 GMT -6
Yes, you can. All content of KoT.net sites is already the property of the Kingdom, and can be freely transferred. In fact, one of the major goals here is to EMPTY (as much as possible) kingdomoftalossa.net, so that the new Websites to be put together by MinStuff can concentrate on putting together good content without always being concerned about making homes for things that shouldn't be on a true national Website that provides official information about a government and a royal house and etc. For example, now that all the laws are in the Wiki, kot.net's copies are redundant and will be removed. As another example, the rules for Talossan football are now only over at the Wiki, and kot.net links out to there for them. Like I say, getting things off kot.net and into the Wiki (especially cultural and literary things that won't have a place in the New World Order of the talossa.com sites) is what we're about here! Hool
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Post by Xheneta Britxind on Aug 11, 2012 17:03:40 GMT -6
Ah, that's good to know. I was looking at the Pengopats Heavy Opera Company page and a lot of the stuff on there is excellent and needs to be plagiarized, ha. (Good grief, I had to look up 'plagiarized' to get the spelling right. Must be the 100 F degree fever I'm enjoying right now. Boo hoo, poor me.) Also, could anyone direct me to a page or link that can help with getting Talossan accent marks and letters correct? Thanks.
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Post by Béneditsch Ardpresteir, O.SPM. on Aug 12, 2012 1:57:28 GMT -6
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Aug 12, 2012 13:05:35 GMT -6
Though I can proudly say that I don't know the language, ... Ben-Ard, I think you misspelled " ashamedly". Hool
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Aug 12, 2012 14:27:33 GMT -6
In fact, one of the major goals here is to EMPTY (as much as possible) kingdomoftalossa.net, so that the new Websites to be put together by MinStuff can concentrate on putting together good content without always being concerned about making homes for things that shouldn't be on a true national Website that provides official information about a government and a royal house and etc. What will be left on KOT.net, or is the plan to eventually retire that site completely? For example, now that all the laws are in the Wiki, kot.net's copies are redundant and will be removed. Shouldn't an official copy of the nation's laws be something maintained on the true national website rather than a wiki? The removal of that info from kot.net makes me nervous.
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Aug 12, 2012 15:11:03 GMT -6
What will be left on KOT.net, or is the plan to eventually retire that site completely? Eventually KOT.net will be repointed at the sites of talossa.com which will indeed have all of the "right stuff" currently found on KOT.net. Not to worry. Not only will the law-bearing pages of the wiki be protected from editing by anyone but those authorised by the Scribery, but there will indeed be copies out on one of the talossa.com sites. Hool
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Aug 12, 2012 18:59:33 GMT -6
Features to protect the law include: - The inherent strengths of the wiki software, which make all changes to the law publicly visible, permanently recorded, and easily reverted.
- Once the major features and all the text have been laid out, all law pages will be protected. Currently, you must be an approved Citizen to edit any page, but in the future this precautionary measure will lock all law pages for editing only by Scribery-approved individuals.
- Rolling backups and regular redundant backups make it unlikely that any data could be lost.
Also in the works is implementation of a feature that would allow anyone to download a generated copy of the OrgLaw and statutory laws, as active at that moment, assembled in an attractive PDF.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Aug 13, 2012 3:40:10 GMT -6
Ah, cool. The PDF feature sounds great, can't wait to see it. The wiki is awesome, but I do hope the final version of the official government site (including L'Anuntzia dels Legeux) ends up looking a little more formal than a wiki style (even if our wiki is more attractive than Wikipedia). KOT.net just looks more governmental to me.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Aug 13, 2012 3:54:30 GMT -6
Ok, look, this is what I was afraid of. The text of the OrgLaw has been changed in the course of its move to the wiki. A different numbering scheme for its sections has been implemented (e.g. "4.12" instead of "Article 4, Section 12"), and the text of internal references in the OrgLaw has been changed to conform to the new numbering scheme. Here is the wiki text of Article 4, Section 12: 4.12
The Senate may impeach any of its members from the Chamber with a 2/3-majority vote. Following impeachment, a vote must be held within a fortnight within the home province for the duration of a fortnight with the issue of expulsion by a simple majority of participating voters. If the province votes in the affirmative for expulsion, the Senator will lose his seat immediately at the close of the polls and the outline for a new Senator in Article IV, 4.10 of the Organic Law will be invoked. If the province votes down expulsion, the impeachment charges will be dropped. Following a failed expulsion, the accused Senator may not again be tried for the same offence, pursuant to OrgLaw XIX.7. The former Senator is not barred from running for office in future elections as long as the former Senator maintains citizenship. And here is the actual text: Section 12. The Senate may impeach any of its members from the Chamber with a 2/3-majority vote. Following impeachment, a vote must be held within a fortnight within the home province for the duration of a fortnight with the issue of expulsion by a simple majority of participating voters. If the province votes in the affirmative for expulsion, the Senator will lose his seat immediately at the close of the polls and the outline for a new Senator in Article IV, Section 10 of the Organic Law will be invoked. If the province votes down expulsion, the impeachment charges will be dropped. Following a failed expulsion, the accused Senator may not again be tried for the same offence, pursuant to OrgLaw XIX.7. The former Senator is not barred from running for office in future elections as long as the former Senator maintains citizenship. It's true that the original text is preserved within the wiki and anyone who looks into the edit history can see it, but a random person trying to look at the OrgLaw will have a hard time figuring out what the correct text is and whether any changes were authorized. My concern is that a wiki format encourages tinkering to clean things up and make them look nicer. But not one word of the OrgLaw should change without an OrgLaw amendment.
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