ZRT Campaign Underway

[C. Carlüs Xheraltescù]

May 29, 2012 16:34:05 GMT -6 Glüc da Dhi said:

May 29, 2012 9:34:11 GMT -6 C. Carlüs Xheraltescù said:

With all due respect, many of these reforms are opposed by the RUMP. As such, replacing the RUMP with a progressive government, a government which I believe the ZRT can offer, is the only way such reforms can be introduced. Of course, I don't believe this will happen overnight. Neither do I believe that the ZRT will be able to do this alone, which is why I believe in the necessity for the progressive parties in Talossa to band together to ensure that our shared vision for Talossa comes to be.

Of course, I'd much prefer it if we don't need to rely on other progressive parties because that would inevitably mean compromise. Now, whilst I'm not an enemy of compromise - compromise does mean that our vision of Talossa won't come to be in its entirety.



You should not that the examples you gave do not feature in our manifesto. I believe I said this to Dieter not long ago: Miestra isn't the entirety of the ZRT. Individual members have their own individual opinions which aren't necessarily adopted by the party. I feel it's important that I make this distinction absolutely clear.

True, but voting ZRT will also mean electing Miestra. Since she is party leader and since a lot of subjects that have been debated so far cant be found in the ZRT manifesto, I was assuming these things are the leading opinion within the ZRT. I apologize if that assumption was incorrect. Just for the record, how does the ZRT feel on these issues?


PS hopefully I will be able to respond to the rest of your post tomorrow, but Im also busy with other stuff, so I cant promise anything.

Miestra is our party leader, yes. However that does not mean that she is able to hold the party hostage to what she alone believes. This is why our party votes on policy every step of the way

On the issue of party registration, the party decided against removing the fee. We have not, if memory serves, discussed the issue of having an apolitical SoS.

I look forward to your response!

I think we should try to cool the debate down somewhat. Despite disagreements over certain issues, we should remind ourselves that there are a lot of key issues which the progressive block would like to resolve. As such, perhaps we should focus our attention, our energy and our convictions against the RUMP conservative monoculture.

[Eiric S. Börnatfiglheu]

May 29, 2012 20:35:21 GMT -6 Hooligan said:

Hey, what about me? I'm arguing and agreeing too, but no one seems to take my offer of an alternative seriously. :-(

Hool, I don't think you can technically cast yourself as an alternative since your party is the incumbent. Unless you've got some sort of Leprechaun magic up you sleeve.

[Hooligan]

May 30, 2012 5:05:17 GMT -6 Eiric S. Börnatfiglheu said:

Hool, I don't think you can technically cast yourself as an alternative since your party is the incumbent. Unless you've got some sort of Leprechaun magic up you sleeve.

Well, as I pointed out, I would be more accurately called the alternative to the alternative, but hey.

Hool

[Eiric S. Börnatfiglheu]

May 30, 2012 9:14:27 GMT -6 Hooligan said:

May 30, 2012 5:05:17 GMT -6 Eiric S. Börnatfiglheu said:

Hool, I don't think you can technically cast yourself as an alternative since your party is the incumbent. Unless you've got some sort of Leprechaun magic up you sleeve.

Well, as I pointed out, I would be more accurately called the alternative to the alternative, but hey.

Hmmm.... touche.

[Lüc da Schir]

I think that arguing and agreeing isn't enough to make a coalition government alternative to the RUMP...

[Sir Tamorán dal Navâ]

Uncle Tophat?

[Glüc da Dhi]

May 29, 2012 19:19:41 GMT -6 Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN said:

Does this mean you wouldn't be willing to form a coalition government with us?

Im not going to respond to everything that has been said here anymore, although there are some serious question that I probably should still answer, If I'll ever find the time, but for now let me say one thing, just for the record. Ive never said I dont want to form a government with the ZRT. The MRPT does not exclude any party. After we see the election results, we want the government that we think is best for Talossa.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

I'm a little disappointed by that response. The ZRT has been accused of being "aggressive" to the other opposition parties, but we have made it clear that we consider ourselves on the same side in making sure the next Seneschál is not from the RUMP. Would the ModRads really consider propping up a RUMP Seneschál?

[Glüc da Dhi]

The MRPT does not exclude any party at this point, so yes, we might consider it. There is still a large chance the RUMP will get an absolute majority anyway, so lets first focus on preventing that from happening.

[Eðo Grischun]

Likewise, Miestra, I do not rule out a CSPP-RUMP alignment. I do not rule out ANY coalition. After the electoral results have been confirmed and we all know exactly what the electorate demand, then negotiations can take place to see what deals can be battered out. Assuming that the RUMP finally win the minority they have been chasing for so long.

For a party that harps on about democracy, the ZRT is shockingly undemocratic if you categorically rule out a RUMP-ZRT administration. What if the election results in a hung parly with RUMP on 90 seats, ZRT on 80, CSPP on 20 and MRPT on 10? Your just going to ignore the will of the citizens?

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

No, I'm going to try to negotiate a grand coalition excluding the RUMP. Honestly, I am getting so much nastiness from the other opposition parties on this, but this is ZRT policy. We want a non-RUMP Seneschál next time. This is our policy.

And this is why the ZRT are the only alternative to RUMP government, because the other opposition parties do not actually want to get rid of the RUMP. And we were accused of "spinning", "political abusiveness", "nastiness" etc - for telling the truth.

[Eðo Grischun]

Honestly, I am getting so much nastiness from the other opposition parties on this,

EH? Where, when and who? An exaggeration, no doubt. No one has been nasty to you over this. Unless you think disagreeing with you is some kind of heinous act.

And we were accused of "spinning"...for telling the truth.

You were not. You were accused of spinning and twisting people words to suit yourself. Oh, and then you admitted to it by saying "thats politics".

For the record. No one in the CSPP attacked the ZRT. I can't remember you being attacked by the MRPT either. Nor the APT. Nor the RUMP. You, not even your party, but you, alone, have been on the offensive from minute one against everyone. Then you claim we are on the same side. I fail to understand your logic.

the ZRT are the only alternative to RUMP government

How? Because we won't agree with you on your policy? MRPT aside for this, the CSPP (second time now) are actually contesting this election. I would love to see us beat the RUMP overall. But, in the current talk of hypothetical coalitions (which should not even be getting discussed at this point) you come to the conclusion that your the only alternative option because 100% of the other party leaders disagree with most of what you have to say? Go raffle yourself.

I'm going to try to negotiate a grand coalition excluding the RUMP

I'm thinking of doing the same. A grand coalition against the ZRT. Your politics revolt me. Your constant politicizing of anything and everything to the point that your worse than even me revolts me. I would fear for the safety of the Kingdom if it were in your hands. There, now you actually got some nastiness.


I'm done arguing with the ZRT.

[Benedict Stamford]

SNAP! YOU GOT TOLE.

[Eiric S. Börnatfiglheu]

Thank you, S:r Stamford. Your insight into Talossan political events, as always, astounds.

But lets not all get carried away here! Remember, we're seeking to be public servants! Before we get too hot on one another, recall. We're here in love of our nation and a desire to see it prosper. Our policies differ but our goals do not! And in terms of policy, I think there is much in common between ZRT, CSPP, and MRPT. Not everything, never everything, of course, but still a fair amount.

Talossa needs tinkering. Like an engine that is not running at optimal condition, it needs a tuneup. Not because the RUMP is evil (they are, but this is an unrelated issue having to do with their toadying to the Leprechauns) but because, and this I firmly believe, reelecting them will get you more of the same. Not bad, but most definitely could be better. One thing I've learned, if you do the same thing repeatedly, you get the same result. Alternance is the answer in this case.

Our esteemed progressive colleagues have some great ideas. Ideas that, if I had my druthers, I would steal (with all due credit, of course). But credit where credit is due, we've got some ideas too.

We resist the idea of a coalition with the RUMP on principle and policy. Change is needed and we did not feel that it would be sufficient if the current ruling party was in place. But honestly, talk of coalition is a bit premature at this point. Let the electors speak first. Then us politicos can hash it out.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

The strong personalised antipathy does seem to suggest that my criticism - that the other opposition parties are not actually "opposition" parties because they don't put a non-RUMP Seneschál as a high priority - is hitting something of a nerve. Of course I am used to this - unloading piles of angry abuse on me is something I got from King Robert I, from the various opposition forces in Penguinea, from the Peculiarist opposition back in the Republic, and so on. If cxhn. Grischün and Cornboy are aiming their anger at me with full force, at least they're not insulting other Talossans, which suggests I'm performing a public service, much like a lightning rod.

But seriously: we seem to be agreed here that if you want to make sure that the next Seneschál is not from the RUMP, then a ZRT vote is the only way to ensure this. Despite cxhn. Grischün's comments, I certainly still consider the ModRads and the CSProgs to be prospective partners in such a government. If they would rather prop up the RUMP for six more boring months, though, that's their own affair. It's good that they are being explicit about this before the election.