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Post by Eðo Grischun on Feb 21, 2012 22:14:36 GMT -6
Vuode, Our constitution is not working. I propose we take a look at trying to revive Vuode and I think the Constitution needs to be the first thing dealt with. PDF attached of my thoughts so far. Major changes include introducing a judicial element to the Province, changing the composition of the States General from 3 Premiers back to 1 along with ordinary member seats, new election rules and some other tweaks. Please, thoughts and comments, changes, rants, etc welcomed and encouraged. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2012 14:48:29 GMT -6
Yes, this is needed. Section 2.1 and 3.x aren't needed. We shouldn't put our flag into the constitution. The constitution's purpose is to set up how our government will function and some enshrining of rights that should never be violated, not to include legislation.
Also, I think 3/4s of the Estates General requiring an amendment is a bit high. Perhaps 2/3s?
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Trotxâ
Talossan since 10-17-2005; Knight since 11-5-2006
Deo duce, ferro comitante
Posts: 1,574
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Post by Trotxâ on Feb 24, 2012 0:53:26 GMT -6
Please, thoughts and comments, changes, rants, etc welcomed and encouraged. Well, you asked for it... I think the Constitution needs to be the first thing dealt with. Agreed. It is time to de-Dreu our foundation document. Major changes include introducing a judicial element to the Province... Um.. Why? Has the national judicial backlog grown so intense that we must add yet another level? This is overly redundant and ornate and not needed. Okay, how about a council of premiers instead of just one, like 3 premiers, who would be elected as the heads of the province elected by the states-general...
...changing the composition of the States General from 3 Premiers back to 1...This makes sense. Section 2.1 and 3.x aren't needed. We shouldn't put our flag into the constitution. The constitution's purpose is to set up how our government will function and some enshrining of rights that should never be violated... I second this. Also, I think 3/4s of the Estates General requiring an amendment is a bit high. Perhaps 2/3s? Agreed. 15 of 20 is absurd. Now, in no particular order, here are a few direct observations to further the discussion: 5.5 Membership of the Estats Xhenerais shall be composed of adult citizens of Vuode only. Where in any of our founding documents is "adult" defined? One must only be 14 or over to vote in a national election. Depending on the item in question, a person reaches majority and is considered an adult at either 18 or 21. Please explain how you mean to deny suffrage to part of the population that could vote in national elections, and could also hold seats in the Zui. 5.1 The primary legislative and governmental body of the province is the Estats Xhenerais, or in English the States General. It is composed of 20 Seats. 1. I get the part about the primary legislative body. What does the term "governmental body" mean here? 2. Why 20 seats? If nothing else, it should be an odd number to avoid ties. 5.6 Appointed members of the Estats Xhenerais are known as “Offiçars del Estats Xhenerais ” or “Officers of the States General”. Shouldn't this read "Elected" for "Appointed"? 6.4 For a Bill to pass and take effect it must achieve ten or more of the twenty available votes during the legislative session 1. This is wordy and imprecise. 2. Do you really mean to have a Bill pass with LESS than a majority? (How about the standard definition of majority, "fifty percent of the votes plus one.") Section 7: Provincial Tribunal "He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance." Kill it. Missing items: A. How to recall elected provincial officials (if needed) B. Impeachments C. Term Limits D. How to handle a vacancy in Cunstaval I'm looking forward to other responses. Sir Trotxâ |
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Feb 24, 2012 7:22:10 GMT -6
Changes made - Most up to date version attached to this post.Sections 2 and 3 (flag and anthem) removed. States General requiring 3/4s changed to 2/3s. Adult Vuodeans: The Organic Law, under election to the Cosa, point 1, defines adult voters as aged 14 or over. Seeing as our Constitution can't take rights away already enshrined in the national law then I assumed that an adult Vuodean was aged 14. I invite further chat on this. "Governmental body": The States General is the be all and end all of Provincial hierarchy. Once the States General is elected it is the highest body. Ruling factions don't tend to form on provincial levels from within the provincial legislators. Rather, on provincial levels, we come together from across parties and debate and mould the direction of the province together. The states general for all points and purposes is "the provincial government". Furthermore, on a provincial level most of the bills we can realisticly author will be bills of a "governing" nature. Again, I invite further chat. 20 seats: Pulled the number out of my hat. What do you all think would be better? Elected vs appointed: It's a language/semantics thing. The Officers themselves were not elected, rather votes were cast to a party who were given a number of seats to fill. The parties were elected who in turn appoint officers to fill their seats. majority of votes in legislative session: changed to Sir T's recommendation. Provincial Tribunal: Yes, ornamental. That is why I filled the post with the three posts already filled. That way we don't need to keep finding people to fill it, don't need to keep going through the process of filling it. It would just be there for the fanciness of having it be there. unless of course, we ended up more active on provincial levels. there may be a need to settle trivial provincial matters from within. This 'military-style' panel would just need to convene when problems are brought before them. Further debate needed. Missing items: (Am I doing all the first drafts?)  A. How to recall elected provincial officials (if needed) How about bringing a complaint to the tribunal? Lets face it, on a provincial level, surely the cunstaval, senator and premier can come up with sensible decisions based on facts before them to be our own inner-province referees. B. Impeachments Help me draft some words on this, please. C. Term Limits What kind of limits are we thinking? D. How to handle a vacancy in Cunstaval Not already handled in the OrgLaw? Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2012 11:57:27 GMT -6
I think you did an amazing job here and we're definitely on the right track to introducing and approving a constitution. Thanks for your hard work!
I look forward to hearing from Sir T about other improvements but you addressed my main concerns.
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Trotxâ
Talossan since 10-17-2005; Knight since 11-5-2006
Deo duce, ferro comitante
Posts: 1,574
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Post by Trotxâ on Feb 25, 2012 11:53:55 GMT -6
I think you did an amazing job here and we're definitely on the right track to introducing and approving a constitution. Thanks for your hard work! Agreed. Thank you also for your initiative. I look forward to hearing from Sir T about other improvements but you addressed my main concerns. Thanks. However, I'm not convinced that we're on the right track. I feel that we're starting in the wrong place. S:reu Grischun has done our province a service by calling a Constitutional Convention. He has worked hard to write a draft of a proposed new Constitution for the greatest province in Talossa, Vuode. I don't disagree that this is needed. However, after some thought and study, I humbly suggest that starting with a Constitution is putting the cart before the horse. I recommend that we in Vuode start with a discussion of the Role and Function of Provincial Government in Talossa. We need to agree on the guiding principles before we can enshrine them in a document. We should agree on our goals, so that when we're done all our citizens can determine if we've met them. I've created a separate thread to enable this discussion. Let's debate our guiding principles before we write our Constitution. Let's make a blueprint before we build the house. I look forward to your thoughts on this. Sir Trotxâ Betiñéir |
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