EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Nov 8, 2008 12:42:07 GMT -6
Looks good to me!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2008 12:59:01 GMT -6
Me too. I'd be interested in Flip and Cresti's initial thoughts before we officially put it up for a legislative vote.
If it passes the legislative vote, I'd say we need to have a referendum to make sure everyone else is satisfied.
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Flip Molinar
Talossan since 1-1-2008
Proud Talossan
Posts: 1,592
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Post by Flip Molinar on Nov 8, 2008 17:01:40 GMT -6
I feel it is as solid as possible at this stage.
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Nov 8, 2008 17:55:24 GMT -6
I am a humble Florencian, but I beg leave to point out that the blazon of the Benitian flag as given in the proposed constitution is incorrect. The first word should be "Per", not "We".
Also, I would like to point out that there has been some discussion of the fact that the Cunstaval (by your constitution to be called the Viceré) should NOT be a citizen of the province to which the King appoints him. The job of the Cunstaval is as "the King's man" in each province, essentially to make sure that the locals do not get too uppity or too big for their britches (by combining together or allowing any one or more of them to assert more power than is kosher). As such, the Cunstaval is essentially a representation of the OTHER six provinces, through the King, to each province, so that the provinces check and balance one another.
If you guys agree with this principle that a Cunstaval should be a citizen of some province OTHER than that to which he is assigned by the King, I would urge you to be the first to say such a thing in your provincial constitution.
(Yes, this is NOT the case currently; some of the current Cunstavais are citizens of the province for which they are responsible. This is something I had hoped to change with new appointments, but the appointment of a Cunstaval, once made, can only be revoked by the King himself, and then only for cause, and His Majesty has had no cause to relieve any of the current Cunstavais -- though I admit it is rather easy never to perform poorly in office if the people of the province never give you anything at all to do, so perhaps this will begin to change.)
Finally, if you guys have it in your hearts, since you are naming things, a favourite figure of mine who was involved in the unification of Italy, was Guiseppe Verdi (or, in English, Joe Green). As (in my opinion) the greatest opera composer ever, perhaps some cultural center in Benito can be referred to using his name.
Hooligan
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EM Vürinalt
Citizen since 12-20-2007
Parletz, am?c, en entrez
Posts: 979
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Post by EM Vürinalt on Nov 8, 2008 19:38:12 GMT -6
Hmm...that is certainly an interesting idea. I would support it if we can all, as provinces, agree to get rid of our current Cunstavals, have the King appoint new ones, and then carry out this system as you suggested.
Perhaps this is discussion for the provincial leaders to have amongst themselves before we agree on something written into our constitution. And it can always be added via ammendment.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2008 19:58:40 GMT -6
Art 13. The Viceré, or Viceroy is the representative of the King of Talossa, and as such, shall have veto power over all laws of the Corporative Chamber. The Viceré is appointed by the King pursuant to Organic Law.
What if we just leave it at that? If the King wants to appoint a citizen of Benito, he may. If he chooses a non-citizen, awesome. My fear if we stipulate that the Cunstuval be a non-citizen is that they will not feel the same sort of connection to the Province because they will be citizens of a completely separate province.
So I see Hooligan's point, but the aforementioned objection also stands out in my mind, so since the King can choose anyone he wants and we can't limit his authority anyway, why not just trust his judgment that he will appoint a wise and just Vicere for our Province?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2008 8:46:01 GMT -6
CONSITUTION OF THE SOVEREIGN PROVINCE OF BENITO
We, the people of Benito, do hereby endorse this constitution for the government of our great Province and do therefore ordain it to be the rule and guide of our government and the guardian of our rights.
The State
Art. 1. The Sovereign Province of Benito is an autonomous and self-governing member of the federal Talossan nation and pledges eternal allegiance to His Royal Majesty, and the Regipäts Talossan.
Art. 2. The name of the state is la Provinçù Soveran da Benito. In English, it is the Sovereign Province of Benito.
Art. 3. The sacred and irremovable territory of the Sovereign Province of Benito shall consist of the cantons of Garibaldi and Mazzini.
Art. 4. The capital of the Province is Garibaldi.
Art. 5. The sole historic and national language of the entire Talossan people, and therefore of the Benitian Province, is the Talossan language (el glhetg Talossan). The Benitian government shall also recognise English as a useful working second language, and may adopt tertiary working languages by law.
Art. 6. The Provincial flag shall be registered with the College of Arms with the blazon, Per fess vert and gules an inescutcheon per tierce vert, argent, and gules fimbriated or in chief a royal crown proper.
The Provincial Chancellery
Art 7. Legislative power in the Sovereign Province of Benito is invested in a Provincial Chancellery. The Provincial Chancellery shall consist of 11 seats filled by representatives of political parties granted legislative seats in the general election.
Art 8. The Provincial Chancellery shall have power to pass any bill into law by a simple majority vote of its members. Voting sessions shall open at the first hour of the first day of each month except during national General Elections. At the dissolution of the Cosa, the Provincial Chancellery will also be dissolved. Seats in the Provincial Chancellery will be redistributed according to the ballots cast in the General Election by citizens of the Province.
Art 9. Members of the Provincial Chancellery shall be known as Chancellors and must participate in each open session of the Chancellery. Failing to vote or abstain in 3 consecutive legislative sessions shall make a Chancellor eligible for removal.
Art 10. A Chancellor may be removed from their seat in the Provincial Chancellery following conviction by the Cort pü Inalt, Dismissal from the Talossan Military, death, incapacitation or failing to vote or abstain in 3 consecutive legislative sessions. Removal shall not be automatic. Following one or more of these incidents, any member of the Provincial Chancellery may present a Writ of Impeachment at the next legislative session which shall clearly state for which of the aforementioned reasons a Chancellor should be removed. The Writ shall be authorized upon receiving a 3/5 majority vote and then presented to the applicable party leader by the Maestro. Political Parties will have until the next session or 30 calendar days, whichever is greater, to fill vacant seats. Any seats left vacant after such time will be turned over to the Viceré for distribution.
The Maestro
Art 11. The Maestro shall be the majority leader in the Provincial Chancellery. He shall have the power to issue proclamations which have the force of law. These proclamations may be appealed or amended as regular laws.
Art 12. A new Maestro may be chosen at any time by a resolution approved by a majority of the Provincial Chancellery, but a resolution electing a new Maestro or continuing the current Maestro in office must be approved by the Provincial Chancellery at least once in every term of the national Cosa. The first order of business of each newly assembled Provincial Chancellery will be to elect a new Maestro from among its members.
Il Viceré
Art 13. The Viceré, or Viceroy is the representative of the King of Talossa, and as such, shall have veto power over all laws of the Chancellery. The Viceré is appointed by the King pursuant to Organic Law. While the King may freely appoint a Viceré, it is the preference of the citizens of the Province of Benito that the Viceré be a citizen of the Province for at least one year prior to appointment.
Art. 14. A veto by the Viceré may be overridden by a 3/5 majority vote of the Provincial Chancellery.
El Representanteu Noval
Art 14. Benito’s delegate to the Senäts shall be known within the Province as el Representanteu Noval and styled “Senator.” The Representanteu Noval shall be selected pursuant to Organic Law.
Distribution of Power
Art 15. So that no conflict of interest may occur, or that no one individual may take over the province in a hostile attempt, no-one may hold more than one of the offices of Maestro, Viceré, or Noval Representanteu simultaneously. The Viceré also may not hold seats in the Provincial Chancellery.
Justice
Art 16. The Cort pü Inalt shall have original jurisdiction to try all cases arising under Benitian law.
Art 17. The Province of Benito reserves the right to form a justice system to meet its needs pursuant to Organic Law.
Amendments
Art 18. This Constitution may be altered by a resolution of the Provincial Chancellery, which must be approved by a referendum of the people attaining the favour of three-fifths of those who vote and promulgated by the Viceré.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2008 8:46:11 GMT -6
I present these changes and propose this as our final draft to be voted on by the Corporative Chamber.
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Flip Molinar
Talossan since 1-1-2008
Proud Talossan
Posts: 1,592
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Post by Flip Molinar on Nov 9, 2008 12:01:36 GMT -6
I second the motion.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Nov 10, 2008 8:06:16 GMT -6
Also, I would like to point out that there has been some discussion of the fact opinion that the Cunstaval (by your constitution to be called the Viceré) should NOT be a citizen of the province to which the King appoints him. Corrected a typo for you.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2008 8:09:56 GMT -6
PROPOSED FINAL DRAFT
CONSITUTION OF THE SOVEREIGN PROVINCE OF BENITO
We, the people of Benito, do hereby endorse this constitution for the government of our great Province and do therefore ordain it to be the rule and guide of our government and the guardian of our rights.
The State
Art. 1. The Sovereign Province of Benito is an autonomous and self-governing member of the federal Talossan nation and pledges eternal allegiance to His Royal Majesty, and the Regipäts Talossan.
Art. 2. The name of the state is la Provinçù Soveran da Benito. In English, it is the Sovereign Province of Benito.
Art. 3. The sacred and irremovable territory of the Sovereign Province of Benito shall consist of the cantons of Garibaldi and Mazzini.
Art. 4. The capital of the Province is Garibaldi.
Art. 5. The sole historic and national language of the entire Talossan people, and therefore of the Benitian Province, is the Talossan language (el glhetg Talossan). The Benitian government shall also recognise English as a useful working second language, and may adopt tertiary working languages by law.
Art. 6. The Provincial flag shall be registered with the College of Arms with the blazon, Per fess vert and gules an inescutcheon per tierce vert, argent, and gules fimbriated or in chief a royal crown proper.
The Provincial Chancellery
Art 7. Legislative power in the Sovereign Province of Benito is invested in a Provincial Chancellery. The Provincial Chancellery shall consist of 11 seats filled by representatives of political parties granted legislative seats in the general election.
Art 8. The Provincial Chancellery shall have power to pass any bill into law by a simple majority vote of its members. Voting sessions shall open at the first hour of the first day of each month except during national General Elections. At the dissolution of the Cosa, the Provincial Chancellery will also be dissolved. Seats in the Provincial Chancellery will be redistributed according to the ballots cast in the General Election by citizens of the Province.
Art 9. Members of the Provincial Chancellery shall be known as Chancellors and must participate in each open session of the Chancellery. Failing to vote or abstain in 3 consecutive legislative sessions shall make a Chancellor eligible for removal.
Art 10. A Chancellor may be removed from their seat in the Provincial Chancellery following conviction by the Cort pü Inalt, Dismissal from the Talossan Military, death, incapacitation or failing to vote or abstain in 3 consecutive legislative sessions. Removal shall not be automatic. Following one or more of these incidents, any member of the Provincial Chancellery may present a Writ of Impeachment at the next legislative session which shall clearly state for which of the aforementioned reasons a Chancellor should be removed. The Writ shall be authorized upon receiving a 3/5 majority vote and then presented to the applicable party leader by the Maestro. Political Parties will have until the next session or 30 calendar days, whichever is greater, to fill vacant seats. Any seats left vacant after such time will be turned over to the Viceré for distribution.
The Maestro
Art 11. The Maestro shall be the majority leader in the Provincial Chancellery. He shall have the power to issue proclamations which have the force of law. These proclamations may be appealed or amended as regular laws.
Art 12. A new Maestro may be chosen at any time by a resolution approved by a majority of the Provincial Chancellery, but a resolution electing a new Maestro or continuing the current Maestro in office must be approved by the Provincial Chancellery at least once in every term of the national Cosa. The first order of business of each newly assembled Provincial Chancellery will be to elect a new Maestro from among its members.
Il Viceré
Art 13. The Viceré, or Viceroy is the representative of the King of Talossa, and as such, shall have veto power over all laws of the Chancellery. The Viceré is appointed by the King pursuant to Organic Law.
Art. 14. A veto by the Viceré may be overridden by a 3/5 majority vote of the Provincial Chancellery.
El Representanteu Noval
Art 14. Benito’s delegate to the Senäts shall be known within the Province as el Representanteu Noval and styled “Senator.” The Representanteu Noval shall be selected pursuant to Organic Law.
Distribution of Power
Art 15. So that no conflict of interest may occur, or that no one individual may take over the province in a hostile attempt, no-one may hold more than one of the offices of Maestro, Viceré, or Noval Representanteu simultaneously. The Viceré also may not hold seats in the Provincial Chancellery.
Justice
Art 16. The Cort pü Inalt shall have original jurisdiction to try all cases arising under Benitian law.
Art 17. The Province of Benito reserves the right to form a justice system to meet its needs pursuant to Organic Law.
Amendments
Art 18. This Constitution may be altered by a resolution of the Provincial Chancellery, which must be approved by a referendum of the people attaining the favour of three-fifths of those who vote and promulgated by the Viceré.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Nov 10, 2008 8:31:57 GMT -6
Curious about the choice of "Provincial Chancellery" to replace "Corporative Chamber." Has "chancellery" ever been used for a legislative body? Seems to me that a chancellor is usually an executive, administrative, or judicial official.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2008 8:41:04 GMT -6
To the best of my knowledge, it hasn't been used for a Legislative body (until now). We chose it because it sounds pretty cool. And I think a bunch of other people did as well, because the use of the term ranges from Executive to Judicial to Educational. Here in New York, the State University is headed by a Chancellor as is the NYC Public School system. So I suppose in that respect, we're kind of branching off and creating a new meaning by our usage of it. But I think that's OK, after all, I've yet to see a Head of Government called the "Maestro."  |
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Nov 10, 2008 9:13:50 GMT -6
But I think that's OK, after all, I've yet to see a Head of Government called the "Maestro." Good point! |
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Hooligan
Squirrel King of Arms; Cunstaval to Maricopa
Posts: 7,325
Talossan Since: 7-12-2005
Motto: PRIMA CAPIAM POCULA
Baron Since: 11-20-2005
Count Since: 9-8-2012
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Post by Hooligan on Nov 10, 2008 22:28:15 GMT -6
Also, I would like to point out that there has been some discussion of the fact opinion that the Cunstaval (by your constitution to be called the Viceré) should NOT be a citizen of the province to which the King appoints him. Corrected a typo for you. In my humble fact, this was not a typo. :-) |
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