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Post by Mr. Tony Weckström on Oct 5, 2008 12:48:51 GMT -6
Is this something to be held against me? Kind of jumpin' the gun there, eh? Queen of being royally sarcastic? |
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Flip Molinar
Talossan since 1-1-2008
Proud Talossan
Posts: 1,592
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Post by Flip Molinar on Oct 5, 2008 12:52:03 GMT -6
No it's just that no one is holding it against you. We just don't see a point to keeping in contact with micro nations. That's all.
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Vit Caçeir
"I hated being AG so much I fled as far from it as literally possible."
Posts: 810
Talossan Since: 11-19-2007
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Post by Vit Caçeir on Oct 5, 2008 12:56:57 GMT -6
Kind of jumpin' the gun there, eh? Queen of being royally sarcastic? Precisely. |
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Post by Mr. Tony Weckström on Oct 5, 2008 13:01:49 GMT -6
Queen of being royally sarcastic? Precisely. Well, apparently some are in the opinion, that we should have some contact with micronations. Look up Talossa on the web, and we are also said to be a micronation. Shouldn't every Talossan citizens vote count? If two has already said YES, then there is at least some support for contact with other micronations, and therefor we should just not dismiss this straight away. I will bring this up in the next Cosa, as a bill to accept certain micronations, that fulfill certain criteria. Tony Weckström Royal Ambassador President of the DPD |
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Vit Caçeir
"I hated being AG so much I fled as far from it as literally possible."
Posts: 810
Talossan Since: 11-19-2007
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Post by Vit Caçeir on Oct 5, 2008 13:10:34 GMT -6
Look up Talossa on the web, and we are also said to be a micronation. Look up Palestine on the web. Palestine is also said to be an illegitimate state. Do Palestinians view themselves as illegitimate? Look up Hamas on the web. Hamas is also said to be a terrorist organization. Does Hamas view itself as a terrorist organization? Look up George W. Bush on the web. George W. Bush is also said to have the most disasterous foreign policy in U.S. history. Does George W. Bush believe he has the most disasterous foreign policy in U.S. history? Shouldn't every Talossan citizens vote count? Yes, but that doesn't mean a select minority will always get what they want. That's foundations of a democracy, right there. If two has already said YES, then there is at least some support for contact with other micronations, and therefor we should just not dismiss this straight away. First off... two as opposed to... more than two. But anyway. Then by all means, hold your vote. But if yourself and one other citizen are for it (perhaps a few more toissed in there was well, per chance), but nearly every other citizen and member of government is against it, you'll need a pretty convincing argument to get anyone to reconsider reforming the micronational policies. I will bring this up in the next Cosa, as a bill to accept certain micronations, that fulfill certain criteria. Yay for democracy? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2008 14:24:06 GMT -6
And that bill will likely be defeated, however, it is your right to present it as it appears that you will receive at least some seats in the Cosa.
But as an ambassador, why are you trying to re-write foreign policy? Shouldn't you at least apply for the position of Foreign Minister first?
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Post by Mr. Tony Weckström on Oct 5, 2008 15:35:55 GMT -6
And that bill will likely be defeated, however, it is your right to present it as it appears that you will receive at least some seats in the Cosa. But as an ambassador, why are you trying to re-write foreign policy? Shouldn't you at least apply for the position of Foreign Minister first? It saddens me to say, but our Hon. Foreign Minister, has not contacted me on anything... Furthermore, I have not even received Talossa's diplomatic handbook on Finland - so there is a great lack of interest in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs - well perhaps maybe, since they have little or nothing to do... (for example, if we're not accepting micronations, there is nothing do but issue statements on other foreign policies around the world on real UN countries and tragic events). In fact, the whole position of the Foreign Ministry is quite useless, it could instead be an Information Bureau of Foreign Events??? Of the Ambassadors we have, I see very little news from them here on Wittenberg... The fact is that NO COUNTRY in the WORLD recognizes Talossa.
Should I go to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs' Protocol Office and introduce myself as the Royal Ambassador of Talossa to Finland, they would firstly think I'm retarded, then think it's a joke, and finally call security to throw me out, or better yet, the Police to take me to get a mental checkup.
I do NOT see the harm, in having for example virtual embassies of some micronations that we could accept, and form diplomatic relations with. It would further cultural exchange, trade, the exchange of ideas and opinions - now what would be wrong with that? I ask this of all Talossans. Why are we isolating ourselves? Kind regards, Tony WeckströmAmbassador to Finland President of the DPD |
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Vit Caçeir
"I hated being AG so much I fled as far from it as literally possible."
Posts: 810
Talossan Since: 11-19-2007
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Post by Vit Caçeir on Oct 5, 2008 16:18:56 GMT -6
I do NOT see the harm, in having for example virtual embassies of some micronations that we could accept, and form diplomatic relations with. It would further cultural exchange, trade, the exchange of ideas and opinions - now what would be wrong with that? I ask this of all Talossans. Why are we isolating ourselves? I'd like to cite... pretty much every word of Ar Pats. Read it my dear friend, and you'll find that Talossa's current "isolationist" policy has lead to a more stable and democratic government than when we intervened in "Micronational Wars". To a certain extent, I agree with you. I'd like to see an active Foreign Ministry, international politics has always been an interest of mine. However, right now we've found a status quo that has led to stability and a well-structured establishment. There is no reason to fix a clock that already works. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2008 16:31:15 GMT -6
Now, I would propose an embassy on Second Life might be a worthwhile venture that may attract more people to become citizens.
That is something that other countries have done, in fact.
But saying we should enter into diplomatic relations with micronations just because real countries may not view us as a real country is just plain silly.
I also don't understand why micronations are constantly contacting the Ambassador to Finland when the website clearly lists the contact information for the Prime Minister, Secretary of State and many others.
As Minister of Defence I don't try to do the job of other cabinet ministers, why can't you tend to your duties as ambassador and leave it at that? If you wish to become the Foreign Minister, apply for the job, but right now you are trying to circumvent the system.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2008 16:36:44 GMT -6
Also, it seems that you are trying to impose YOUR will rather than the will of the majority of citizens. Propose all of the legislation you like, I will fight with every ounce of strength to ensure they are shot down.
The only thing that is sad is that you disappear for months at a time and come back stronger than ever with even more foolishness each time.
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Post by Mr. Tony Weckström on Oct 5, 2008 19:04:42 GMT -6
Now, I would propose an embassy on Second Life might be a worthwhile venture that may attract more people to become citizens. That is something that other countries have done, in fact. But saying we should enter into diplomatic relations with micronations just because real countries may not view us as a real country is just plain silly. I also don't understand why micronations are constantly contacting the Ambassador to Finland when the website clearly lists the contact information for the Prime Minister, Secretary of State and many others. As Minister of Defence I don't try to do the job of other cabinet ministers, why can't you tend to your duties as ambassador and leave it at that? If you wish to become the Foreign Minister, apply for the job, but right now you are trying to circumvent the system. Perhaps you should know, that Talossa has an Embassy website for Finland also. It is through this email I have been contacted. It might also be easier for these micronations representatives to contact a mere Ambassador, than the Secretary of State or Foreign Affairs, as it is so well known, that we are at the same level of isolation from others than North Korea or the Union of Myanmar. But I too am bound by Talossa's laws, and I do not seek, nor contact these micronations until such time, as it is allowed. All I can do, which I believe is common courtesy, is to say, that we do not recognize micronations, but I will relay the message - this is all I have ever done.BUT; I confess, that I am FOR establishing relations with micronations, that have been around for at least one (1) year, have a constitution, citizens, and REAL LAND - not just imaginary land... Therefor, I would have been in favor of the King's visit to Texas. Kind regards,
Tony Weckström, Ambassador to Finland President of the DPD |
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Vit Caçeir
"I hated being AG so much I fled as far from it as literally possible."
Posts: 810
Talossan Since: 11-19-2007
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Post by Vit Caçeir on Oct 5, 2008 19:06:19 GMT -6
Again I ask Ambassador, are you able to make a personal confirmation of the Principality's "real land" within the U.S. state of Texas? Not that such a confirmation would matter in the longrun; you simply seem quite assured of this Principality's legitimacy.
Especially when the Principality is associated with the Republic of Mirage Islands, which previously sold passports and honourary titles in an illegitimate money making scheme.
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Post by Mr. Tony Weckström on Oct 5, 2008 19:45:29 GMT -6
Again I ask Ambassador, are you able to make a personal confirmation of the Principality's "real land" within the U.S. state of Texas? Not that such a confirmation would matter in the longrun; you simply seem quite assured of this Principality's legitimacy. Especially when the Principality is associated with the Republic of Mirage Islands, which previously sold passports and honorary titles in an illegitimate money making scheme. I have seen the the Tax Statements of the Principality's REAL land, as they first contacted me. One statement is for 5 acres, the other for 10. They are surely real, and can be checked through the county in which the property is located. As to the Mirage Islands. As far as I know, they had committed no crimes, and they did sell their passports as any micronation can. These passports are by no means legal travel documents, and the Mirage Islands never claimed them to be so. The Mirage Island's even minted coins, and sold them - there was nothing illegal about that either! I do not know all the facts of the Mirage Islands, but I know this of these passports, they are considered as novelty items, just as the passports sold on www.lunarembassy.com, which also sells passports, and even celestial property, which in most countries might be considered illegal. If Talossa can make ID cards, and sell them. Then anyone can do the same. The point is that these are not official governmentally accepted documents, and are not labeled with a country's name that exists. It would be another issue entirely, if someone sold passports of for example Australia, which would have validity made out for years or even days, a picture of the holder, name etc... Only expired, or canceled passports are allowed to be sold - by this I mean REAL passports of REAL countries. For example you'll find them on Ebay. I don't know where you get your info on the Mirage Islands, but perhaps you are now mistaken about it having had any illegal dealings financially - and it is slander to say so. My only experience with the Mirage Islands was when the New Texas was at "war", and the Mirage Islands called upon us to join on their side. I kindly answered, that we don't acknowledge or recognize micronations - but I did notice at the time, that they sold their coins through Paypal, and even saw one or two on Ebay - NOW if these would have been illegal, Ebay would have removed them immediately - but they did not - I remember, because I followed that silly little 'war' closely... As to honorary titles, they are sold all the time on the web, even on Ebay. Become a Lord or a Lady, see for example become-a-lord.co.uk/ It is all done through a name change process, according to old English law, through something called a Deed Poll - anyone can make one, they just have to know the exact wording. These companies are just selling these fancy documents needed for the name change, nothing more. Sure, there might be a 2cm * 2cm parcel of land with this "title" too... It is not the same as a patent of nobility issued by the the Queen of England, it does not come with a peerage. And the Mirage Islands simply took this same business idea and made it apart of their own... Anyone with half a brain would have known that. Just like everyone knows that if you buy a piece of the moon from the Lunar Embassy, you don't actually own anything but a piece of paper that says you own it... So that's that on my knowledge on the Mirage Islands. Titles of nobility, coin minting, passports, and celestial property. Kind regards, Tony WeckströmAmbassador to Finland President of the DPD |
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Vit Caçeir
"I hated being AG so much I fled as far from it as literally possible."
Posts: 810
Talossan Since: 11-19-2007
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Post by Vit Caçeir on Oct 5, 2008 20:12:11 GMT -6
I have seen the the Tax Statements of the Principality's REAL land, as they first contacted me. One statement is for 5 acres, the other for 10. They are surely real, and can be checked through the county in which the property is located. Perhaps I am the only one that finds it a bit odd that a nation based in North America contacts the Talossan Ambassador to Finland and tosses its tax returns to him, but eh... I'll disregard it, I suppose. If Talossa can make ID cards, and sell them. Then anyone can do the same. Maybe I'm intoxicated, but I don't recall criticizing the right to sell identification. I do criticize selling titles of nobility at outlandish prices, though. I don't know where you get your info on the Mirage Islands... Their website, to be exact, before it was removed prior to the "Micronational War" (Bitovia/Elsanor V. Mirage Islands/New Texas) that is. As well as the Republic's digital embassy at the Dominion of British West Florida, where the Republic's legitimacy has fallen under suspicion as well. but perhaps you are now mistaken about it having had any illegal dealings financially - and it is slander to say so. Perhaps "illegitmate" was a poor choice of words to describe Mirage Islands selling nobility at hundreds of dollars a pop. Perhaps "Super-Crazy-Mental-Bullshit" is a more accurate term. And yes, for the record, that IS a direct attack towards the Mirage Islands. Selling a coffee mug for five bucks is one thing. Selling a worthless title of nobility for hundreds of dollars (albeit technically legal) is a downright scam. My only experience with the Mirage Islands was when the New Texas was at "war", and the Mirage Islands called upon us to join on their side. I kindly answered, that we don't acknowledge or recognize micronations So the Republic contacted the Ambassador to Finland to seek help in an international diplomatic crisis that excluded Finland? Interesting. I remember, because I followed that silly little 'war' closely... I get your connotation, so I will confirm it for you. I am Edward Wadas, former Prime Minister of the now defunct Citizenry Republic of Bitovia. The one who authorized Bitovia to work alongside the Grand Duchy of Elsanor and the Dominion of British West Florida to discover all it could about the Principality of New Texas and the Republic of Mirage Islands. And my friend, we discovered things about those nations that would make your hair curl.... Part of the reason I'm so skeptical to even consider opening relations with micronations, specifically these "two".... As to honorary titles, they are sold all the time on the web, even on Ebay. Become a Lord or a Lady, see for example become-a-lord.co.uk/ It is all done through a name change process, according to old English law, through something called a Deed Poll - anyone can make one, they just have to know the exact wording. These companies are just selling these fancy documents needed for the name change, nothing more. Sure, there might be a 2cm * 2cm parcel of land with this "title" too... The difference though is that it upholds a law in England, therefore the title would be recognized. Unlike the titles sold by Mirage Islands, which barely exists. Even so, it doesn't change the fact that those titles are sold by FOR PROFIT corporations... wouldn't this make Mirage Islands a "for profit" micronation? . And the Mirage Islands simply took this same business idea and made it apart of their own... Anyone with half a brain would have known that. Believe me my friend, I know it. I know what the Mirage Islands wants, and I know the direct links between the Republic and the Principality. Which is why, especially in this case, micronations should be avoided. Especially ones which exist to run as, how you say, a business. And contact our foreign officer in Finland to seek help with a North American "war". |
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Post by Mr. Tony Weckström on Oct 5, 2008 21:33:55 GMT -6
I have seen the the Tax Statements of the Principality's REAL land, as they first contacted me. One statement is for 5 acres, the other for 10. They are surely real, and can be checked through the county in which the property is located. Perhaps I am the only one that finds it a bit odd that a nation based in North America contacts the Talossan Ambassador to Finland and tosses its tax returns to him, but eh... I'll disregard it, I suppose. Maybe I'm intoxicated, but I don't recall criticizing the right to sell identification. I do criticize selling titles of nobility at outlandish prices, though. Their website, to be exact, before it was removed prior to the "Micronational War" (Bitovia/Elsanor V. Mirage Islands/New Texas) that is. As well as the Republic's digital embassy at the Dominion of British West Florida, where the Republic's legitimacy has fallen under suspicion as well. Perhaps "illegitmate" was a poor choice of words to describe Mirage Islands selling nobility at hundreds of dollars a pop. Perhaps "Super-Crazy-Mental-Bullshit" is a more accurate term. And yes, for the record, that IS a direct attack towards the Mirage Islands. Selling a coffee mug for five bucks is one thing. Selling a worthless title of nobility for hundreds of dollars (albeit technically legal) is a downright scam. So the Republic contacted the Ambassador to Finland to seek help in an international diplomatic crisis that excluded Finland? Interesting. I get your connotation, so I will confirm it for you. I am Edward Wadas, former Prime Minister of the now defunct Citizenry Republic of Bitovia. The one who authorized Bitovia to work alongside the Grand Duchy of Elsanor and the Dominion of British West Florida to discover all it could about the Principality of New Texas and the Republic of Mirage Islands. And my friend, we discovered things about those nations that would make your hair curl.... Part of the reason I'm so skeptical to even consider opening relations with micronations, specifically these "two".... The difference though is that it upholds a law in England, therefore the title would be recognized. Unlike the titles sold by Mirage Islands, which barely exists. Even so, it doesn't change the fact that those titles are sold by FOR PROFIT corporations... wouldn't this make Mirage Islands a "for profit" micronation? . And the Mirage Islands simply took this same business idea and made it apart of their own... Anyone with half a brain would have known that. Believe me my friend, I know it. I know what the Mirage Islands wants, and I know the direct links between the Republic and the Principality. Which is why, especially in this case, micronations should be avoided. Especially ones which exist to run as, how you say, a business. And contact our foreign officer in Finland to seek help with a North American "war". Let's end this issue between US two. It's pointless to discuss it. You seem to know more about the Mirage Islands and New Texas than I do - and I can freely admit it. I am only speaking from the experience and email correpondence from their representatives; when they wanted recognition etc... and that was a long time ago. New Texas offered their hand in friendship, and invited our King to their Royal Lodge - we must by our standards decline. That's that. Maybe some other time. It would just have been interesting to see photographs of the two heads of state's meeting each other, and hearing what they talked about... it would not automatically have had to mean, that we would recognize their micronation. Well. It's Monday morning, 6:33 am, gotta go to work. Have a nice day! Kind regards, Tony WeckströmAmbassador to Finland President of the DPD |
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