Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jul 17, 2008 8:45:33 GMT -6
Well, first off War Paths, though I realize that that is the French army You mean Warpaths, the book about North American military history before the American Revolution? You can't be basing your view of military justice on the 18th century French army in North America.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Jul 17, 2008 10:54:31 GMT -6
Yeah, he can. He always does things like that.
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Post by Dréu Gavárþic'h on Jul 17, 2008 10:58:43 GMT -6
Well, first off War Paths, though I realize that that is the French army You mean Warpaths, the book about North American military history before the American Revolution? You can't be basing your view of military justice on the 18th century French army in North America. Sorry, wrong title I was thinking about something else. I mean Paths of Glory with Kirk Douglas.
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jul 17, 2008 11:35:23 GMT -6
Sorry, wrong title I was thinking about something else. I mean Paths of Glory with Kirk Douglas. Oh, from World War I. That's at least less then a century ago. Still hardly representative of modern military justice, though. Remember, the French were guillotining civilian criminals for decades after that. Is that a reason to abolish the civilian court system?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2008 12:00:09 GMT -6
Hey look! A Red Herring!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2008 12:14:02 GMT -6
I added a section on review and upgrades, I figured since we can issue adverse discharges we should probably have a way that one can be changed. Though, hopefully we will never need to issue one.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2008 10:12:18 GMT -6
I see no reason why this shouldn't pass. I think T.M. is presenting an excellent bill for consideration. But, to those of us who aren't in the know, what does BOHICA stand for?
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Brad Holmes
Cunstaval to Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Atatürkey, and flying by the seat of my RUMP
Posts: 1,014
Talossan Since: 3-16-2006
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Post by Brad Holmes on Jul 21, 2008 16:51:36 GMT -6
This is classic, on so many levels.
B end O ver H ere I t C omes A gain
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Post by Bleic'h Ianescu on Jul 27, 2008 11:35:18 GMT -6
I assume then that the Discharge Review Board would be established and its regulations codified by the MoD after/if this is enacted?
Maybe you would consider dropping the reference to the Discharge Review Board and instead using "Discharges may be upgraded after the fact by Royal decree or as laid out by active military law and regulation" similar to what was done with the initial Tribunal reference.
Also I don't see why a discharge should never be downgraded. What if a serious transgression is discovered after the perpetrator has left the service? I can't necessarily think of any examples of this right now, but it seems like the door should be left open. It would have to be included that this could never happen due to conduct after leaving the service.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2008 8:48:20 GMT -6
I assume then that the Discharge Review Board would be established and its regulations codified by the MoD after/if this is enacted? Maybe you would consider dropping the reference to the Discharge Review Board and instead using "Discharges may be upgraded after the fact by Royal decree or as laid out by active military law and regulation" similar to what was done with the initial Tribunal reference. Also I don't see why a discharge should never be downgraded. What if a serious transgression is discovered after the perpetrator has left the service? I can't necessarily think of any examples of this right now, but it seems like the door should be left open. It would have to be included that this could never happen due to conduct after leaving the service. The regulations for the DRB are in the works right now. The MoD does not require passage of this act to establish discharge procedures. The idea is to make it law so that upon leaving the service there is government recognition of that service. Presently, we have no legislation entitling Veterans to any benefits or anything, this is the first step. We must first establish what a veteran is and the different types. However, since the DRB is simply a gathering of three Officers, it is not something we really need to omit, just something that needs to be clarified through additional military regulation. As for downgrading of discharges, this is taken directly from other nations military procedures. For example, in the US Military, if you are honourably discharged from the service and it is later learned that you did something horrible on active duty, (provided you are not still a reservist) you are prosecuted as a civilian in a civilian court. Once a discharge is issued in the US, it can only be changed by a special review board. So, what I'm saying is this. If a person does something bad and deserves a General Discharge rather than an Honourable Discharge but we issue the Honourable, the mistake is on us, carry on and have a great day. It isn't that big of a deal and allowing us to downgrade discharges opens the window for potential abuse. If a person did something that would warrant Dismissal and it is later learned, it is something that would likely be handled by the High Cort. If you get hammered by them, it wouldn't really matter what character your military discharge was. As a safeguard, we are developing a system for placing people on Reserve Status. So, if a person leaves Active Duty and later it is discovered they did something that warrants punishment, provided it is discovered during their reserve period, they can still be punished appropriately.
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Post by Bleic'h Ianescu on Jul 28, 2008 11:24:36 GMT -6
Thanks for the clarification, that helps sort things out for me. I'm not familiar with US military protocol having never served.
On the whole, good legislation.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2008 7:28:22 GMT -6
Very good then. Capt. Mick, I request this bill be Clarked at the convenience of the government.
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Aug 2, 2008 8:23:47 GMT -6
I feel obligated to mention that the next Clark will be held Oct 1, 2008
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Post by Jack Fenton on Aug 2, 2008 8:46:18 GMT -6
But doesn't the election go on until the 14th?
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Capt. Sir Mick Preston
Capitán of the Zouaves
Posts: 6,511
Talossan Since: 9-21-2006
Knight Since: 10-12-2010
Motto: Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
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Post by Capt. Sir Mick Preston on Aug 2, 2008 9:38:36 GMT -6
Ack.
I stand corrected.
the Election will be from Sept 15th to Oct 14th.
So, make that November Cosa.
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