Mariitimi-Maxhestic's Constitutional Convention

[Breneir Itravilatx]

My friends I would like to take this opportunity to begin discussions toward the development of a framework for a provincial constitution or charter. I would like to submit some of the ideas from the Commission on Provincial Administration but will have to review it because I think that some of its goals were realized once we passed the statute.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

S:reu the Grand General Secretary,

I have come up with a very rough outline of what I thought might be a working document for this purpose. Rather than making it all pretty, it seems as though we should tackle substantive issues first. To that end, some of these are addressed below. I believe that virtually all power should be invested in the assembly, as you will see, with the premier being almost without exclusive powers (invested only with such as would help maintain order and civility), and the cunstaval is given zero power beyond what is guaranteed by OrgLaw. As King's rep, my reading shows him to be able to veto bills (very significant) in our assembly, and to do a variety of ceremonial things like holidays and titles only if the King delegates such power to him (highly unlikely, but still apparently Organically secured). I will also in future hold that the existence of this ongoing constitution will be sufficient to satisfy Org XVII.9d, with no further need for us to establish rules under which we shall operate.

I have been trying, as well, to formulate some mechanism which will establish a benchmark of participation in our local government. Should we drop below this, all power would revert to the Cunstaval. This is a tricky thing to manage, but I think will ensure smooth operation of the province in perpetuity. If people are not interested, they need not be, and the province will not grind to a halt completely (hopefully). The benchmark will be very low, I imagine, so as not to provoke some manner of coup.

I. Nature of document
-Laying out of what it is supposed to be, and what it is not. Affirm dominance of OrgLaw, and assert rights of citizens.

II. Provincial assembly
A. Powers of assembly
-Power to make laws to protect the rights of citizens and advance the province.

B. Limitations of assembly
-Shall not infringe on OrgLaw-mandated no-no areas (Org XVII.6)

C. Elections of assembly
-Requirements of assemblypersons (18 years old, citizen in good standing of province, not convicted of crime in Talossa).
-Time and manner of elections to be determined by law.

D. Grand General Secretary
-Ceremonial position, to serve as head of provincial government when such is needed.

E. Functioning of assembly
-Reuse much of rules of operations statute regarding courtesy, variety of law (motion/statute/referenda). Minor changes as will be made apparent.

III. Cunstaval
-Ceremonial position, to serve as King's liaison. Powers as established in OrgLaw.

IV. Judicial Review
-All laws subject to challenge by citizens of province to the High Cort.

I hope this will serve as a decent start to discussion, even if it is disliked.

[Breneir Itravilatx]

As usual, S:reu Davis has gotten things off to an incredible start. I wanted to chime in on some of the current components of our framework. And see what you all think.

agbdavis said:

S:reu the Grand General Secretary,

I have come up with a very rough outline of what I thought might be a working document for this purpose. Rather than making it all pretty, it seems as though we should tackle substantive issues first. To that end, some of these are addressed below. I believe that virtually all power should be invested in the assembly, as you will see, with the premier being almost without exclusive powers (invested only with such as would help maintain order and civility), and the cunstaval is given zero power beyond what is guaranteed by OrgLaw. As King's rep, my reading shows him to be able to veto bills (very significant) in our assembly, and to do a variety of ceremonial things like holidays and titles only if the King delegates such power to him (highly unlikely, but still apparently Organically secured). I will also in future hold that the existence of this ongoing constitution will be sufficient to satisfy Org XVII.9d, with no further need for us to establish rules under which we shall operate.

I agree completely. Almost all power should reside in the legislative branch of the province. This may already be the case based on our recently passed statute but we should also put in a clause regarding methods to remove an absent, incompetent or corrupt grand general secretary.

agbdavis said:

I have been trying, as well, to formulate some mechanism which will establish a benchmark of participation in our local government. Should we drop below this, all power would revert to the Cunstaval. This is a tricky thing to manage, but I think will ensure smooth operation of the province in perpetuity. If people are not interested, they need not be, and the province will not grind to a halt completely (hopefully). The benchmark will be very low, I imagine, so as not to provoke some manner of coup.

This is an excellent idea! Should we make the bottom benchmark a quote of active citizenry in the province or perhaps in the assembly?

agbdavis said:

D. Grand General Secretary
-Ceremonial position, to serve as head of provincial government when such is needed.

This is a merely cosmetic change but can we alter the name of the "Grand General Secretary" to simply "Premier".

agbdavis said:

E. Functioning of assembly
-Reuse much of rules of operations statute regarding courtesy, variety of law (motion/statute/referenda). Minor changes as will be made apparent.

Some other provinces have suggested live meetings of assemblies and I wanted to see if we would be interested in doing the same via skype, googletalk, etc. Perhaps once a month or so? It would great to put voices with the wonderful words of my compatriots.

agbdavis said:

III. Cunstaval
-Ceremonial position, to serve as King's liaison. Powers as established in OrgLaw.

This is not intended as a slight toward our current Cunstaval but should we look into requesting the appointment of a new one due to the fact that our current Cunstaval has been missing in actions for some time?

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

edieppe said:

I agree completely. Almost all power should reside in the legislative branch of the province. This may already be the case based on our recently passed statute but we should also put in a clause regarding methods to remove an absent, incompetent or corrupt grand general secretary.

That statute will be rendered null after the passage of this constitution, actually. This will be the highest law of the province, excepting that law of the Ziu covering those sectors granted to it and the OrgLaw.

I agree. There should be a method of impeachment of officials.

edieppe said:

This is an excellent idea! Should we make the bottom benchmark a quote of active citizenry in the province or perhaps in the assembly?

"Active" is a hard thing to quantify. I was inclining towards a clause that reverts control if the assembly passes no motions or bills for a term.

edieppe said:

This is a merely cosmetic change but can we alter the name of the "Grand General Secretary" to simply "Premier".

I don't know the history of the name. We should find that out first, before we up and change it.

edieppe said:

Some other provinces have suggested live meetings of assemblies and I wanted to see if we would be interested in doing the same via skype, googletalk, etc. Perhaps once a month or so? It would great to put voices with the wonderful words of my compatriots.

That would be interesting, indeed. I don't have voicechat, I will look into it.

edieppe said:

This is not intended as a slight toward our current Cunstaval but should we look into requesting the appointment of a new one due to the fact that our current Cunstaval has been missing in actions for some time?

I am entirely happy with an inactive Cunstaval, actually.

[Breneir Itravilatx]

All very good points. I am going to look into the history of the Grand General Secretary name and then will report back to the convention soon.

[Capt. Sir Mick Preston]

::wanders in::

Btw, I should have mentioned before -

I notified the King recently of the inactivity of the Cunstavals and Premiers of certain provinces (ours included). I did this as Lord Hooligan and I were updating the Provincial assignments, and the corresponding pages on KOT.net

The King is going to attempt to contact our Cunstaval to see his current activity level, and see if he wishes to remain in the position.

If he doesn't, steps will be taken to remedy this situation.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

Having checked on the matter, I note that the title of Grand General Secretary goes back at least fourteen years, and probably longer. I think this is tradition enough to retain it.

I thank S:reu Preston for his comment. It is unfortunate that we will have a more active Cunstaval... such a figure has more power in an active province than is comforting. Perhaps we should appeal to the Cort for an informal opinion on the exact powers the Cunstaval Organically possesses, since I want to keep such powers to their minimum in M-M.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

S:reu Grand General Secretary, I await you to continue.

[Breneir Itravilatx]

Azul all,

I wanted to submit my apologies for my recent absence. I have been overtaken by the wave of Obamamania in our neighboring nation. But I am also making my best efforts to work on our draft constitution as well.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

S:reu Grand General Secretary, it has been a significant amount of time now. I realize you are busy, but you are designated "master of ceremonies" by statute and this would seem to imply a level of activity sufficient to maintain those ceremonies; i.e. this body. In the interests of further action, I hope you will not mind if I present a second set of revised guidelines, despite your lack of a call for quorum or the like. New sections are in italics.

I. Nature of document
-Laying out of what it is supposed to be, and what it is not. Affirm dominance of OrgLaw, and assert rights of citizens. It shall be considered in perpetuity the fulfillment of the Organic requirement for rules of operations, XVII.9d.

II. Provincial assembly
A. Powers of assembly
-Power to make laws to protect the rights of citizens and advance the province.
-Power to impeach the Grand General Secretary in case of mal, mis, or nonfeasance

B. Limitations of assembly
-Shall not infringe on OrgLaw-mandated no-no areas (Org XVII.6)

C. Elections of assembly
-Requirements of assemblypersons (18 years old, citizen in good standing of province, not convicted of crime in Talossa).
-Time and manner of elections to be determined by law.

D. Grand General Secretary
-Ceremonial position, to serve as head of provincial government when such is needed.

E. Functioning of assembly
-Reuse much of rules of operations statute regarding courtesy, variety of law (motion/statute/referenda). Minor changes as will be made apparent.

III. Cunstaval
-Ceremonial position, to serve as King's liaison. Powers as established in OrgLaw but specified herein as permitted the right to veto provincial bills, although this veto may be overturned by a simple majority of the assembly plus one seat (i.e. just a shade more than it required to pass in the first place, fulfilling the Organic requirement of granting the King's Governor all the powers of the King on a local level by giving him a functional veto, but neutering it as much as is Organically possible).

IV. Emergency Powers
-Defining the "time of good behavior" within the OrgLaw formally: a term within which interest and feasance has been exhibited by the citizenry, as measured by assembly activity. If an entire assembly term should pass without any activity by that assembly, consisting of a vote on at least one matter, the following term the province would be considered to be behaving badly. At such a time, the Cunstaval will wield all powers delegated to the Assembly and Grand General Secretary for this term and shall be titled "Emergency Dictator" within the province. The "Emergency Dictator" will be tasked with the responsibility of restoring the legitimate government to usefulness by inspiring provincial activity, and his powers will end with that term. Accordingly, the Emergency Powers will always expire after a time period of one term.

V. Judicial Review
-All laws subject to challenge by citizens of province to the High Cort.

VI. Amendments
-Document may be amended by unanimous vote of assembly, followed by majority vote of the people.

[Breneir Itravilatx]

Honorable Distain Davis,

You have done an incredible job as usual. I wanted to first check with you both before beginning a draft based on your proposed outline which I could submit before the end of this weekend. Does this sound OK to all members of the assembly? Or would we like to continue it as a collaborative exercise?

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

I think it would be best to develop jointly a set of guidelines on all parts, before moving on. It seems like you don't have any real problem with my second iteration, but I suggest we should take a long hard look and make sure we have a working set of goals, with all powers and rights enumerated or protected. III and IV are relatively innovative ways of meeting Organicity while still locking in our provincial rights, and I admit I would appreciate a cold hard look at them from a second party. And I am pretty sure I must have forgotten something else, too.

Once we have established our working guidelines, I believe the rest of this assembly would be perfectly satisfied if you would like to write a first draft.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

A new draft, fleshing it out a bit more and supplying the relevant sections on Assembly operation. I borrowed from Cezembre and included a section for naming conventions... thanks, Owen!

I. Nature of document
Laying out of what it is supposed to be, and what it is not. Affirm dominance of OrgLaw, and assert rights of citizens. It shall be considered in perpetuity the fulfillment of the Organic requirement for rules of operations, XVII.9d. Shall only be repealed or amended by process detailed within document.

II. The Province

A. The province's name shall be Maritiimi-Maxhestic.

B. The provincial flag shall be emblazoned "Per Scandinavian cross, 1 Per fess vert and gules, 2 and 3 Argent, 4 Tierced in pale gules, or, and azure; a Scandinavian cross sable fimbriated argent and refimbriated sable; overall at the center of the cross a plate fimbriated sable charged with an anchor sable festooned at its head with a ribband azure bearing the legend "8-1-93" sable."

[/blockquote]
III. Provincial assembly

A. Political power within Maritiimi-Maxhestic shall be invested in an Assembly, known as the Provincial Assembly of Maritiimi-Maxhestic. This Assembly shall have the power to make whatsoever laws it deems necessary to protect the rights of citizens and advance the province, limited only by the boundaries given within this document.

B. Limitations of assembly
As established within the Organic Law, the Assembly shall pass no laws which would entail the repeal or amendment of the Organic Law or a national statute. No provincial statute shall be passed which contravene either that Organic Law or national statutes. Additionally, the Assembly shall pass no laws which would entail appropriation or outlays of public revenue or monies; nor shall it pass laws which establish a census or statistics; nor shall it pass laws which establish weights or measures; nor shall it pass laws which establish a provincial currency, coinage or legal tender; nor shall it pass laws which establish copyrights, patents, or trademarks. Any law, resolution, or amendment shall be deemed invalid and without effect to the extent to which it violates national law or Organic law.

C. Elections of assembly
Candidates for assemblypersons shall be required to be at least eighteen years of age, a citizen of good standing of Maritiimi-Maxhestic, and free from any criminal record in Talossa. The time and manner of elections for assemblypersons are to be determined by law.

D. Functioning of assembly

1. Legislation for the good governing of Maritiimi-Maxhestic shall be the business of the Assembly. As such, actions undertaken by the Assembly in whatever nature must strictly pertain to the province and her interests. All other business shall be rightly conducted elsewhere.

2. The attitude and rhetoric of members of the assembly shall be at all times professional and cordial, as this shall be the most conducive to the operation of the assembly and good service of the people. It is requested to this end that members of the assembly address each other politely, as befitting elected legislators.

3. Legislation can take several forms, and shall be appropriately titled as according to the forms below.

4. A motion of the assembly shall express general intent to the exterior of the assembly or shall govern self-governance of that assembly. Inasmuch as shall be possible, it will not mandate behavior, but suggest it. Passage of a motion shall require a majority of votes of the assembly.

5. A provincial statute passed by the assembly shall establish the rule of law within the province. The primary purpose of statutes shall be to ensure the rights of the citizens of the province as guaranteed by the Organic Law of the nation, and the secondary purpose shall be to further the interests of Maritiimi-Maxhestic. Passage of a statute shall require a majority of votes of the assembly.

6. A referendum shall be an item of law which will change the system of governance, such as the establishment of a constitution. Passage of a referendum will require first a two-thirds majority of votes of the assembly, after which time it will be referred to the people. It will pass into law and be given force after approval of a majority of the people.

E. Grand General Secretary
The Grand General Secretary shall fulfill the position of premier and leader of the Assembly. He will have ceremonial power to represent the province as needed, but shall exercise no other power. He shall be elected by majority vote within the Assembly each term. He may be removed at any time by another majority vote of the Assembly, for any reason.

[/i][/blockquote]
IV. Cunstavál

A. A cunstavál shall be appointed by the reigning monarch of Talossa to serve as that personage's liaison within the province and formal represenative. In accordance with the Organic Law, this cunstavál shall have the following powers and no others:

1. The cunstavál shall possess a limited veto power upon bills put forward by the Assembly. Should the cunstavál veto a bill, it will return for consideration by the Assembly. This veto can be overturned by a simple majority of the Assembly. The cunstavál can veto a bill only once.
2. The cunstavál shall have the power to create provincial holidays, should the Assembly create such an institution.
3. The cunstavál shall have the power to grant provincial titles of nobility, should the Assembly create such an institution.
4. The cunstavál shall have the power to pardon those convicted of crimes by a provincial cort or commute their sentences, should the Assembly create such an institution.

B. The term of the cunstavál shall be without end, unless the monarch of Talossa should remove him or appoint another in his place.

[/i]
V. Emergency Powers
Defining the "time of good behavior" within the OrgLaw formally: a term within which interest and feasance has been exhibited by the citizenry, as measured by assembly activity. If an entire assembly term should pass without any activity by that assembly, consisting of a vote on at least one matter, the following term the province would be considered to be behaving badly. At such a time, the Cunstaval will wield all powers delegated to the Assembly and Grand General Secretary for this term and shall be titled "Emergency Dictator" within the province. The "Emergency Dictator" will be tasked with the responsibility of restoring the legitimate government to usefulness by inspiring provincial activity, and his powers will end with that term. Accordingly, the Emergency Powers will always expire after a time period of one term.

VI. Judicial Review
All laws shall be subject to challenge by citizens of province to the High Cort. This is the only Cort competent to rule over such laws. Lesser corts established by national statute shall be permitted jurisdiction over all other civil and criminal matters should they be created by the Assembly, and otherwise such matters will also be tried before the High Cort.

VII. Amendments
This document may be amended only by a bill passed with a supermajority, wherein two-thirds of the members of the Assembly vote in favor, but such an amendation will not be valid unless it is further passed by a majority vote of the people. This document may be repealed by unanimous vote of the Assembly, but such a repealing shall not be valid unless it is further passed by a majority vote of the people.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

I have done some more work on it, as I am sure you can see. Since I have had many weeks now to do so.

[Breneir Itravilatx]

Once again, S:reu Davis has proven why he is a rising star in our land. I have some questions and comments:

Concerning IIB:

This is just a suggestion and I know it has been discussed before but should we consider simplifying our flag? This is just a personal opinion and I am only a ceremonial leader of the province but don't we think it is really really crowded? Could someone explain the purpose of all the attributes on our flag?

Concerning IIIC:

Our national voting age is 14. Why do we want to make voting age in our assembly age 18? Concerning election intervals I am assuming that that is set forth in connection with federal timing.

Concerning V:

Oy vey, this is merely a question of cosmetics and semantics but "Emergency Dictator"? Could we maybe term it "Interim Governor" or "Temporary Potentate"? Yes, I know it is merely cosmetics but S:reu Davis is there any possibility of rejiggering it to improve the connotation of the office?

Alexander, you have kicked some serious a** in the drafting of this document! You are the James Madison of Mariitimi-Maxhestic.

Breneir