A PROPOSAL FOR PEACE

[kri]

Azul, loyal Talossans,

I am making this post on Wittenberg entirely on my own as King of Talossa, without the blessings or consent of my government. It is simply food for thought; it is not an "official" proposal or announcement in any way. It is simply a statement of my own personal hope that it might be useful to help Talossans and others get past the issues that have rotted at our innards for the last six or seven months.

OK, here goes.

I would propose that we make a "peace deal" with the quitters. In order for this to be a genuine deal, each side would have to give the other side something that it wants. Otherwise, to have one side or the other simply cave in, it would lead not to reconciliation and peace but to resentment and revenge.

My hypothetical proposal would contain the following key points.

ONE: Both parties (the Kingdom of Talossa and the group of ex-Talossans) would share financial responsibility, equally, or perhaps in proportion to their population, for the maintenance of all "Talossa" domain names. If there is no cost to maintain a particular domain, then there is no need for shared expenses on that domain.

TWO: All "Talossa" domain names (ours and theirs) will be shut down and replaced by a single web site, linked from every such domain. The website will consist of nothing more than links to each community. For a sample site, see this link: www.execpc.com/~talossa/peace.html

THREE: The group of ex-Talossans must cease using the word "Talossa" or any of its derivatives on any of their websites, and change their name. They can continue to host whatever websites they want, but must replace the words "Talossa," "Talossan," and so forth, with different words. This is mainly for search engine purposes. EXCEPTION: They would be allowed to say, once, on their primary website, that among their founders were some "former citizens of the Kingdom of Talossa."

FOUR: As an individual, I, Ben Madison, would under the terms of this agreement, consent to the ex-Talossans using my copyrighted and registered texts, the Talossan grammar and dictionary, to produce whatever materials they wanted in the Talossan language. However, they would not be allowed (under clause #3) to call it the Talossan language. They could call it whatever they wanted. And on each of their pages using the Talossan language, they would be required post a copyright notice and to have a link back to the originators of that language, namely, the Kingdom of Talossa. (Perhaps the wording would be such: "The Republic of Whatever is not responsible for this language. We use it with the gracious permission of R. Ben Madison, its author. For more information about the creative talent behind this language, CLICK HERE.") [And the link would be to the Kingdom of Talossa website.]

FIVE: Each group would create its own nickname or euphemism for the other group, and would always, under all circumstances, use that word and not the actual word, for the other group. That means, we would not refer to them as the Republic of Whatever ["Whatever" being whatever name they chose to go by], and they would not refer to us as Talossa. (Why? To prevent search engines from turning up references to the other group.)

SIX: All online and published texts produced by each group would use replacement names for all individuals involved in the other group, and these names will be designed to protect the identity of the people involved. So, our texts would not refer to Marti-Pair Furxheir, but to some alternative, fictional name (I suggest "Mordecai Ledoucier" :-)), and their texts would not refer to King Robert I (but perhaps to "King George").

SEVEN: As part of their corporate identity, the ex-Talossans group would not maintain any 'territorial claims' or whatever other historic allusions to the East Side of Milwaukee, the island of Cezembre, or Pengopats.

EIGHT: No poaching. Each group shall write it into their respective constitutions that under no circumstances will current or former citizens of one group EVER be naturalized as citizens of the other group, as of the date the treaty goes into effect. This will immediately create a climate of mutual trust and respect. Neither group will have to worry about the other lusting after its citizens. (This article is crucial. Without it, there really is no peace.)

Anyhow, that is my SUGGESTION. It is not a dictate; it is not a final offer.

The reason there is division, is simple. On our part, we do not want them using our name and the product of our creative talent without some compensation, and some people find this divisive. On their part, they have chosen to use our name and the product of our creative talent to promote a rival group without any compensation, and some people find this divisive.

Is anyone really interested in peace and compromise, or am I just barking up a nonexistent tree?

Ben

[seahobbit]

Honestly, I do not really like the idea...

I have a problem with a few of those suggestions:

1. They (Republic) have registered a considerable numbers of Talossan domain name, which represent a few hundred dollars a year to be split. The ZPT will oppose any attempt to tax Talossans for such a project.

2. Domain names ought to be use for more than redirecting, I doubt very much that this would be acceptable to anyone.

3. No objections.

4. Not for me to object.

5. Freedom of Speech, you cannot forbid any Talossan from using whatever term to refer to them and vice versa.

6. NO NO NO. Retain all records as is. Refer to them by their name or Talossan name as they were known.

7. Who cares what they claim.

8. The ZPT will not support this, people can make mistakes and they should be allowed to change their mind and come back to the Kingdom.

The ZPT believe that the so-called Republic, despite having flashy websites, will not gather the community life that we have and support to simply ignore them.

[Xhorxh Asmour]

I make Marc's words mine.

[Lord Q]

It is a start, one that must be negotiated between our gov't and their representative.

[Lord Q]

Although now it seems Gruber has forsaken all of us because of his hatred for Ben.

[inksplash]

ITALICS MINE

ONE: Both parties (the Kingdom of Talossa and the group of ex-Talossans) would share financial responsibility, equally, or perhaps in proportion to their population, for the maintenance of all "Talossa" domain names in existence at the time the treaty is signed. If there is no cost to maintain a particular domain, then there is no need for shared expenses on that domain.

TWO: All "Talossa" domain names (ours and theirs) will be shut down and replaced by a single web site, save one, the costs of maintenance shared as above, linked from every such domain. The website will consist of nothing more than links to each neutrally-named community. For a sample site, see this link: www.execpc.com/~talossa/peace.html No further "Talossa" web domains will be created or purchased by either Kingdom and Republic without permission of the other.

(This may be necessary to prevent THIRD PARTIES from poaching 'our' names, as has already happenned!)

THREE: The group of ex-Talossans must cease using the word "Talossa" or any of its derivatives on any of their websites, and change their name. They can continue to host whatever websites they want, but must replace the words "Talossa," "Talossan," and so forth, with different words. This is mainly for search engine purposes. [glow=red,2,300]They must rename any government offices or institutions that duplicate existing Kingdom institutions[/glow] EXCEPTION: They would be allowed to say, once, on their primary website, that among their founders were some "former citizens of the Kingdom of Talossa."

I would suggest Republic of Qator Itrins for them.

FOUR: As an individual, I, Ben Madison, would under the terms of this agreement, consent to the ex-Talossans using my copyrighted and registered texts, the Talossan grammar and dictionary, to produce whatever materials they wanted in the Talossan language. However, they would not be allowed (under clause #3) to call it the Talossan language. They could call it whatever they wanted. {snip}

I would make this another exception to the Talossan-name ban of Section Three. One does not have to BE Spanish to speak Spanish, or Klingon for Klingon, or whatever. As long as they make the distiction that they are not Talossan, I don't care if they speak the language.

FIVE: Each group would create its own nickname or euphemism for the other group, and would always, under all circumstances, use that word and not the actual word, for the other group. That means, we would not refer to them as the Republic of Whatever ["Whatever" being whatever name they chose to go by], and they would not refer to us as Talossa. (Why? To prevent search engines from turning up references to the other group.)

Bad idea. It lends itself to a vaguely insulting choice (like my preferred "ROTters"), or something more blatantly so, being chosen and then enshrined in law. Simply saying "The Kingdom" or "The Republic" gets the point across, lacking a unique name to use instead.

SIX: All online and published texts produced by each group would use replacement names for all individuals involved in the other group, and these names will be designed to protect the identity of the people involved. So, our texts would not refer to Marti-Pair Furxheir, but to some alternative, fictional name (I suggest "Mordecai Ledoucier" :-)), and their texts would not refer to King Robert I (but perhaps to "King George").

I think that we should continue to use the pre-split Talossan names as replacements. I think references to "King Robert" can be left as such, but ALL use of real last names should be stricken.

SEVEN: As part of their corporate identity, the ex-Talossans group would not maintain any 'territorial claims' or whatever other historic allusions to the East Side of Milwaukee, the island of Cezembre, or Pengopats.

No argument there. Hey, if we aren't going to annex the rest of the city, maybe we should let them.

EIGHT: No poaching. Each group shall write it into their respective constitutions that under no circumstances will current or former citizens of one group EVER be naturalized as citizens of the other group, as of the date the treaty goes into effect. This will immediately create a climate of mutual trust and respect. Neither group will have to worry about the other lusting after its citizens. (This article is crucial. Without it, there really is no peace.)

I would define "poaching" as "trying to dissuade a prospective of the other camp from joining that group". Those are the ones we should protect the most. Distasteful as it is, a person should be able to change camps, BUT ONLY IF THEY FIRST PUBLICLY RENOUNCE THEIR EXISTING CITIZENSHIP IN THEIR CURRENT FORUM. No more stealth defections like Maxime, please. Why in the HELL did he cleave to their side, anyway? They are the ones who flatly rejected him as PM! But I digress...

The reason there is division, is simple. On our part, we do not want them using our name and the product of our creative talent without some compensation, and some people find this divisive. On their part, they have chosen to use our name and the product of our creative talent to promote a rival group without any compensation, and some people find this divisive.

[inksplash]

One hundred dollars a year, split (for example) 50/50, then that 50 divided among 10 or so of us IS 5 (or less, if there's more of us), WHICH IS QUITE MANAGEABLE. If that breaks up their near-monopoly on domain names, I'm all for it. Even three or four site fees shared in this way is manageable.

As long as they continue to outspend in in this category, they will have a commanding edge on us -- and it's damn easy to outspend ZERO.

[seahobbit]

Gary said:

One hundred dollars a year, split (for example) 50/50, then that 50 divided among 10 or so of us IS 5 (or less, if there's more of us), WHICH IS QUITE MANAGEABLE. If that breaks up their near-monopoly on domain names, I'm all for it. Even three or four site fees shared in this way is manageable.

If it were that simple, I would probably not object. But that fact is they have more than a dozen domain name with the name Talossa. Which would also be required to be hosted. In any case, my main objection was against a main page for both nations as Ben's proposal. Domain names ought to be use for more than redirecting and I doubt very much that either group would agree to that.

As long as they continue to outspend in in this category, they will have a commanding edge on us -- and it's damn easy to outspend ZERO.

I have no objections in raising money for other marketing projects including registering and hosting our own domains. Just to make it clear, my objections is strickly to the above proposal, any other idea would be weighted and considered appropriately.