A NATION IS NOT A STATE

[Mr. Tony Weckström]

According to Wikipedia.org a NATION is NOT A STATE.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation

Especially to the passage explaining the following:

"A nation is not a state, and while traditionally monocultural, it may also be multicultural in its self-definition. The term nation is often used as a synonym for ethnic group (sometimes "ethnos"), but although ethnicity is now one of the most important aspects of cultural or social identity, people with the same ethnic origin may live in different nation-states and be treated as members of separate nations for that reason. National identity is often disputed, down to the level of the individual."

From the same source: DEFINING A NATION

"The national identity refers both to the distinguishing features of the group, and to the individual's sense of belonging to it. A very wide range of criteria is used, with very different applications. Small differences in pronunciation may be enough to categorize someone as a member of another nation. On the other hand, two people may be separated by difference in personalities, belief systems, geographical locations, time and even spoken language; yet regard themselves, and be seen by others, as members of the same nation.

The first requirement for the definition is that the characteristics should be shared - a group of people with nothing in common cannot be a nation. Because they are shared, the national population also has a degree of uniformity and homogeneity. And finally, at least some of the characteristics must be exclusive - to distinguish the nation from neighbouring nations. All of the characteristics can be disputed, and opposition to secessionist nationalism often includes the denial that a separate nation exists."

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

a group of people with nothing in common cannot be a nation

But we do have a lot in common, so we fulfil this requirement

And finally, at least some of the characteristics must be exclusive - to distinguish the nation from neighbouring nations. All of the characteristics can be disputed, and opposition to secessionist nationalism often includes the denial that a separate nation exists."

We are very different from everyone else, we are Talossa!!!

[Mr. Tony Weckström]

What I mean is, that if a nation cannot be a state, then the Vatican cannot be called a nation.

And in what sense do you distinguish our Kingdom of Talossa different from for example another 'Kingdom' that calls itself a micronation?

alexandreu said:

a group of people with nothing in common cannot be a nation

But we do have a lot in common, so we fulfil this requirement

And finally, at least some of the characteristics must be exclusive - to distinguish the nation from neighbouring nations. All of the characteristics can be disputed, and opposition to secessionist nationalism often includes the denial that a separate nation exists."

We are very different from everyone else, we are Talossa!!!

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

yes, I do say that the KOT is different for another Kingdom that calls itself a micronation, because by doing this they are making themselves not be recognized seriously by "real" nations.

[Mr. Tony Weckström]

Be that as it may,

if I would present to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Finland some sort of credentials of being the Royal Ambassador for Talossa, they would probably see me as a mad man - firstly they would require that Talossa would ACTUALLY own REAL land, occupy it, have a recognized government etc. which for example the UK or US has.

Is there then some sort of plan within the Kingdom of Talosssa to become recognized by another REAL country - which would take Talossa closer to being a internationally and diplomatically accepted country or territory???

Not even the Principality of Sealand has been given ANY diplomatic recognition, which is the most likely candidate of a 'micronation' to achieve such a goal.

Whatever a country, or nation wishes to call itself, it should not have an impact on the merits that the international community sets for a country to become recognized as a state.

Just a wild example, even if Ivory Coast should change it's name to Micronational Ivory Coast - I don't believe it would have any problems keeping it's recognized position as a UN member state.

alexandreu said:

yes, I do say that the KOT is different for another Kingdom that calls itself a micronation, because by doing this they are making themselves not be recognized seriously by "real" nations.

[Deleted]

TW, I implore you to do more research into the concept behind a "nation-state"

[Mr. Tony Weckström]

A nation is not a state, PERIOD!
I am referring to the actual wording of the meanings behind NATION and STATE.

As we in Talossa call ourselves a NATION, not a micronation, or a nation-state, what is the relevancy in researching "nation-state" concepts?

The point behind all this is that either we shall call ourselves a NATION, or a STATE - as MICRONATION seems to be out of the question.

But then again, the word NATION brings along a huge load of other meanings, as I stated in some earlier thread; for example the Nation of Islam, or the Aryan Nation. They would not call themselves micronations either, but they do not really work in the same way we do.

Should Talossa then by your opinion be "the Nation-State of the Kingdom of Talossa"? Perhaps that would sound better than having ourselves in the micronational category, where we are listed everywhere on the internet.

Just something to think about...

Kind regards,

Tony Weckström
Royal Ambassador to the Republic of Finland
for the Kingdom of Talossa

vitooliver said:

TW, I implore you to do more research into the concept behind a "nation-state"

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

I do not know whether or not you are a native English speaker, but the words "Nation" and "state" in this context, to me, mean the same thing.

[Mr. Tony Weckström]

My father is British, so I guess I am more of a British-English speaking individual...

In any case - I've read through Diplomatic handbooks, books on Statehood, etc... and never are the words 'nation' EXACTLY the same as 'state'.

But enough of our tiny dispute over this word issue - let our esteemed government decide what is right and what is wrong.

alexandreu said:

I do not know whether or not you are a native English speaker, but the words "Nation" and "state" in this context, to me, mean the same thing.

[Deleted]

Although nation and state are synonmus in spoken English, TW has a point. However, Talossa is a nation state, just as the Vatican is a nation state "the Vatican is the state that represents the Catholic nation." the State of Talossa represents the nation of the Talossan people.

So yes, the concept of nation-state has absolute relevency to the subject at hand. As far as our government deciding, the Kingdom(the State) has clearly stated we are a nation, not a micronation.

[Sir Alexandreu Davinescu]

This thread has caused an aneurysm in my brain, and I died. After a short period of mourning, my relatives will be selling my possessions to pay for a time-share in a summer home up north. The obituary which ran was phrased in a bellicose and particularly clipped manner, and the funeral services consisted primarily of a single overweight man jumping up and down on the coffin in a Chaplin-esque mimicry of someone trying to close a suitcase. At one point, he paused and twirled his mustache.

[Dréu Gavárþic'h]

I later cut off the moustache and placed in on a horse which I then proceeded to place in S:reu Weckström's bed to avenge the death of S:reu Davis.

[Breneir Itravilatx]

There is only one nation that should concern everyone...the one that encompasses all peoples and all territory on this planet...the human nation

[Deleted]

agbdavis said:

This thread has caused an aneurysm in my brain, and I died. After a short period of mourning, my relatives will be selling my possessions to pay for a time-share in a summer home up north. The obituary which ran was phrased in a bellicose and particularly clipped manner, and the funeral services consisted primarily of a single overweight man jumping up and down on the coffin in a Chaplin-esque mimicry of someone trying to close a suitcase. At one point, he paused and twirled his mustache.

I would've sold your organs instead.

[Sir C. M. Siervicül]

agbdavis said:

This thread has caused an aneurysm in my brain, and I died. After a short period of mourning, my relatives will be selling my possessions to pay for a time-share in a summer home up north. The obituary which ran was phrased in a bellicose and particularly clipped manner, and the funeral services consisted primarily of a single overweight man jumping up and down on the coffin in a Chaplin-esque mimicry of someone trying to close a suitcase. At one point, he paused and twirled his mustache.

Nevertheless, so long as you continue to vote at least once in every three elections, you can remain a citizen in good standing.