Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 4, 2020 17:24:31 GMT -6
Estimadâs és estimats citaxhiêns! As of today 49 citizens of Talossa, one former citizen who struck out and one prospective are registered on New Wittenberg. The government previously set a target of 50 citizens. We believe that this is close enough for Government work.Therefore we officially decree that New Wittenberg at wittenberg.talossa.com is now "Wittenberg" as referred to in El Lexhatx Title J, and all official business - Government, Ziu, Corts and the Royal Civil Service, will henceforth be carried out there.We also humbly request: - that Glüc da Dhi and the Chancery quickly move towards establishing standards of "Wittiquette" and methods of enforcing the same, as mandated in El Lexhatx Title J; - that this post be made an announcement, and in all other ways it should be made clear that Old Witt is now deprecated and directing all interested parties to New Witt; - that (if possible) henceforth posting new threads should be disabled on "Old Witt", although responding to existing threads should be left open for a while. If this is not technically possible, then King John and Glüc da Dhi should strongly encourage this behaviour. We are aware that Ián Tamorán is still having trouble accessing the talossa.com domain, and until these issues are sorted out, he gets a special dispensation to continue to post here. Questions? Comments?
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Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial
Batetz las maes, perf. —— Freelance glheþineir (I only accept Worthless Internet Points™ as payment)
Posts: 448
Talossan Since: May 12, 2014
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Post by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial on Jan 4, 2020 19:14:50 GMT -6
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Post by Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h on Jan 4, 2020 19:32:20 GMT -6
Continued gratitude for those who have made this day possible... A lot of work has gone into getting the new Witt up and running, and we are near to the end of that process.
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Jan 5, 2020 12:13:29 GMT -6
Sadly I don't think the Government can legally declare the switch. The Chancery is explicitly in charge of certifying that New Witt is ready, yet Glüc da Dhi hasn't even created an account on New Witt and I have no evidence that he has even visited it recently. I would also suggest that switching while a Clark, a hearing and a high profile court case are all in progress is not a very good idea as it would lead to a whole lot of confusion and, for example, potentially important actions having no value if they're posted in the wrong forum.
TLDR: This is legally meaningless.
Edit 2: Of course, this also means that the move of immigration threads to New Witt is also on shaky legal ground. Edit 3: But not Eðo's excellent work on modernising the immigration process.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 5, 2020 13:55:25 GMT -6
Law being referenced states: "Until such a time as the Chancery officially certifies the new official board as ready for occupancy, 'Wittenberg' shall be taken to mean the forum at talossa.proboards.com which currently goes by that name."
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Ián Tamorán S.H.
Chief Justice of the Uppermost Court
Proud Philosopher of Talossa
Posts: 1,401
Talossan Since: 9-27-2010
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Post by Ián Tamorán S.H. on Jan 5, 2020 14:27:29 GMT -6
... We are aware that Ián Tamorán is still having trouble accessing the talossa.com domain, and until these issues are sorted out, he gets a special dispensation to continue to post here. Questions? Comments? I am now - at last - able to get on to talossa.com (etc.) - through a VPN (sheesh!) I shall make, in the Cort, my final postings on this proboards - it will be (I trust) a fitting ending to this particular technological meeting-place.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 5, 2020 15:23:44 GMT -6
Well, it appears that the Government didn't read the law properly (and that's a collective stuff-up). Sorry about that.
Nevertheless, alea jacta est. We will continue moving Government operations to NewWitt, because we think that NewWitt is in danger of dying on the vine if the balance of Talossanity isn't moved over there quickly. The Chancery, the Ziu and the Cort can do what they want, but hopefully this will accelerate the SoS's decision-making re: Title J. I should also point out that the Interior Minister's decision to move Immigration proceedings to NewWitt preceded this collective Cabinet decision and I doubt it will be rescinded - although of course people can sue for anything.
(Probably this is the equivalent of what Brazil, Malaysia and Burma went through moving government operations to a new capital...)
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Jan 5, 2020 16:27:05 GMT -6
[...], because we think that NewWitt is in danger of dying on the vine if the balance of Talossanity isn't moved over there quickly. This is undoubtedly true and something that I thought hard about when sign-ups slowed down before Christmas.
Hopefully, even though legally "Witt" is still the one on PB, it won't continue to be the case for long. I would still recommend the Government get in touch with the Chancery to see what can be done to keep the process moving - keeping in mind the SoS's ongoing apparent personal difficulties.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jan 5, 2020 18:35:22 GMT -6
The only place where it might post a real problem if there's a question of if it "officially" switched is probably in the court. I still doubt it would be a problem, but someone could appeal based on the fact that a change of venue made it more difficult for them to present their case, and maybe prove it.
I'd suggest that since there has been no real action taken yet with regards to this announcement, it might make more sense to announce that on an upcoming date, probably soon, the government will ask the Chancery to make the certification. Given a little notice, I'd wager that could be made to work.
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Post by Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h on Jan 5, 2020 22:11:54 GMT -6
The only place where it might post a real problem if there's a question of if it "officially" switched is probably in the court. I still doubt it would be a problem, but someone could appeal based on the fact that a change of venue made it more difficult for them to present their case, and maybe prove it. I'd suggest that since there has been no real action taken yet with regards to this announcement, it might make more sense to announce that on an upcoming date, probably soon, the government will ask the Chancery to make the certification. Given a little notice, I'd wager that could be made to work. I would also suggest the Cort keep current business on this board, get email acknowledgement from *all* relevante parties as to how the Cort will handle things, and go from there.
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jan 6, 2020 16:37:32 GMT -6
I'd suggest that since there has been no real action taken yet with regards to this announcement, it might make more sense to announce that on an upcoming date, probably soon, the government will ask the Chancery to make the certification. Given a little notice, I'd wager that could be made to work. The Government has reached out to the Chancery for a speedy determination of this issue, which may involve the SoS delegating the decision to someone who has more time for Talossa at the moment.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Jan 7, 2020 17:07:39 GMT -6
Yeah, just to say this is "collective stuff-up" as Miestra says. A majority of Cabinet, from 3 different political parties, all gave the collective go-ahead on this. We are all to blame for not going back to read over El Lex before giving the Seneschal full cabinet approval.
Hands up. Our fault.
That said, I agree with everything else that's been said. We should press forward with the current courses of action and hope the Chancery will confirm and legitimize everything.
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Post by Eðo Grischun on Jan 7, 2020 17:13:09 GMT -6
The only place where it might post a real problem if there's a question of if it "officially" switched is probably in the court. Possibly, also, The Hopper. As we all know, there exists a statutory value of time that must pass during which a legislative proposal must remain in the Hopper for before the Chancery will accept it for Clarking. Technically speaking, if a proposed Bill is posted, only, on the new forums before the Chancery formally adopts those forums, then it is possible that a Bill would fail the Clarking requirements. I would urge and suggest to all my fellow legislators that all Bills are posted in both Hoppers for the immediate time being until the new forums are 100% official and certified.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Jan 7, 2020 18:01:11 GMT -6
Right...
Well, Lüc is correct of course. According to the law as it is written there hasn't been any official switch. I'm thankful to Lüc for pointing this out, because I wasn't particularly motivated to go argue about it myself.
I also don't really think new witt is about to "die on the vine" or anything, since the current people in power seem pretty committed to the idea and it doesn't look like the political winds are about to change anytime soon. I'd be more worried about leaving people behind if the change is made too abruptly.
All that is pretty irrelevant though, cause I wasn't planning on stalling or whatever and the only reason I haven't made the switch yet is that I have not found the time or motivation to sort out the stuff that needs sorted out, like the moderation rules and the admin hierarchy (also, I have some doubts about some of the boards and settings but that's a whole different discussion) yet.
Also, nobody actually told me the government was about to do this unilaterally or do it on the fifth (just like no one told me about the timing of the original announcement). But then again, to be fair, I havent been very responsive to things people did tell/ask me about either.
I do agree with Lüc though that switching in the middle of a clark was bad timing anyway, so my suggestion is that I try to get everything done either by January 27th or February 25th so we can switch in between clarks. I guess I'm willing to delegate the work in principle to make sure it gets done in time for that, but I'm not exactly sure who to and I would still like to sign off on these decisions anyway (delegating itself needs time and motivation as well I guess.)
I should note that simply changing the law on this so it's not dependent on the chancery anymore is also an option. (Or I guess the government could replace me.)
As for now, I can't see what about immigration exactly has been moved, but I should note that the law requires prospectives to post on wittenberg (this forum) to start their examination period.
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Jan 7, 2020 18:02:39 GMT -6
I'd suggest that since there has been no real action taken yet with regards to this announcement, it might make more sense to announce that on an upcoming date, probably soon, the government will ask the Chancery to make the certification. Given a little notice, I'd wager that could be made to work. The Government has reached out to the Chancery for a speedy determination of this issue, which may involve the SoS delegating the decision to someone who has more time for Talossa at the moment. Did you do so around the time this was posted? Because I don't think I received anything, but maybe I missed it...
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