King John
King of Talossa
Posts: 2,415
Talossan Since: 5-7-2005
Knight Since: 11-30-2005
Motto: COR UNUM
King Since: 3-14-2007
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Post by King John on Aug 11, 2019 15:42:37 GMT -6
Many things probably ought to be said here, but one of them is simply that if people's "mental health" is endangered by the possibility of having to wait for a month before overriding a veto, maybe those people ought to be in some other kind of job. I mean, really.
No, people's plans for Talossa don't "absolutely depend" on my yay or nay. The most I can do is delay implementation by one month. I can't "torpedo-veto" anything. It's more like "barnacle-veto". Slows things down, but that's all.
— John R
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Aug 11, 2019 17:25:09 GMT -6
Many things probably ought to be said here, but one of them is simply that if people's "mental health" is endangered by the possibility of having to wait for a month before overriding a veto, maybe those people ought to be in some other kind of job. I mean, really. And people say I'm the rude one who doesn't care about the feelings of others. Trumpism has surely come to Talossa, in the form of a head of state who can act dismissively and disrespectfully - to his own Government, and to 3/4 of the legislature - and a section of the public applaud it, as long as the targets are their political opponents. I clearly stated that the issue is, not the veto, but the uncertainty about when and where the "torpedo" is coming from. The King has positively told us that he likes it that way, keeping everyone guessing until he makes up his mind. We say that this kind of uncertainty makes doing Talossa unpleasant for us. He flamboyantly doesn't care. We are heading for a confrontation.
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Post by Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h on Aug 11, 2019 18:35:24 GMT -6
Many things probably ought to be said here, but one of them is simply that if people's "mental health" is endangered by the possibility of having to wait for a month before overriding a veto, maybe those people ought to be in some other kind of job. I mean, really. No, people's plans for Talossa don't "absolutely depend" on my yay or nay. The most I can do is delay implementation by one month. I can't "torpedo-veto" anything. It's more like "barnacle-veto". Slows things down, but that's all. — John R I will comment on the torpedo-veto only. Regarding your veto-power, other that vesting it into an elected and term-limited official, all I ask is that if you have objections to hoppered legislation, be proactive about, use your mad rule-skillz, and work with us in getting things fixed. Without a veto-majority, any veto you render stands, yes? I’m on the mobile atm.
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King John
King of Talossa
Posts: 2,415
Talossan Since: 5-7-2005
Knight Since: 11-30-2005
Motto: COR UNUM
King Since: 3-14-2007
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Post by King John on Aug 12, 2019 14:27:59 GMT -6
Dama Miestra, how is it disrespectful to anyone to point out your overuse of heated rhetoric? Nobody's "mental health" is at stake, and you know it. Every member of the Ziu, as far as I can tell anyway, is sane and reasonable enough to easily withstand the strain of a possible legislative delay.
In fact, by suggesting otherwise, it's *you* who would seem to be insulting the mental stability of MZs.
— John R
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Aug 12, 2019 15:16:33 GMT -6
Dama Miestra, how is it disrespectful to anyone to point out your overuse of heated rhetoric? Nobody's "mental health" is at stake, and you know it. No, I'm not going to be gaslit like this, John. It honestly upsets me and you are offending me by refusing to even countenance that. I feel real stress opening Wittenberg honestly not knowing whether you're going to pull out a veto, or a court case, which will derail my Government's agenda. I ask you honestly and you refuse to tell me, because you like having flexibility (and the element of surprise). This makes Talossa significantly less fun for me. You may not understand why you behaving like this has the same kind of negative, depressing effect on people's desire to be Talossan and involved. And I don't understand why peaceful political activity by Talossans who came from the Republic seems to upset some people so much that they've pulled out of Talossa altogether; but that's what the National Survey says. Look. Either both sides agree that the other side has a point, that the way we behave has some impact on interest in Talossa, and if we could all change our ways that would be nice. OR: one side insists that we don't have a problem, it's those sensitive snowflakes who are also rude and abusive have a problem, and they can get out of Talossa if they don't like it. By simply dismissing my concerns, you are setting up for a renewed civil conflict, which this time I hope doesn't end up in multiple Talossas. Some on your side of the aisle might cheer you on with such brinkmanship, in the hope it will drive me out of office/those of pro-Republican sympathies out of Talossa. They are unpatriotic and selfish. I also try to dissuade those on my side of the aisle who think Reunision was a mistake.
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King John
King of Talossa
Posts: 2,415
Talossan Since: 5-7-2005
Knight Since: 11-30-2005
Motto: COR UNUM
King Since: 3-14-2007
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Post by King John on Aug 12, 2019 15:55:51 GMT -6
Oh gee. You accuse me of endangering people's "mental health". I say, Pshaw, no such thing, don't exaggerate. And now you are "honestly upset" and offended at my answer.
I'm sorry that you're not having as much fun with Talossa as you'd like. Do you somehow imagine that your actions are making Talossa fun for me? Of course you don't; you have other things to worry about. You use your political power to try to implement your plans; I'm trying to do something similar from a much weaker position, hoping to guide the country into what I think of as a happy future. We don't agree, maybe, on what that future should look like, and we're likely to annoy each other on the way there. But your being annoyed doesn't mean I'm evil, heartless, cruel.
For what it's worth, I haven't been noticing any "cheering on", possibly because I don't sit on one side of any aisle.
By the way, if any Member of the Cosa feels I'm endangering his "mental health", please let me know. Help is available. :-)
Cordially,
— John R
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Aug 12, 2019 16:21:35 GMT -6
I'm sorry that you're not having as much fun with Talossa as you'd like. Do you somehow imagine that your actions are making Talossa fun for me? So I recommend a way in which we could change things so we could both have more fun. If you're unhappy with Government initiatives, talk to me in advance, in plenty of time. All that I (and the AMP leader in the Cosa) are asking is that you consult about things you're not happy with, or unsure about, rather than the first the Government hears about your unhappiness being when you use your powers to obstruct us. In the 19th century, Sir Walter Bagehot defined the important roles of the British Monarchy as "to advise, to encourage, and to warn". I remember one time you did this: your advice on Cabinet appointments. In the event I didn't take that advice but I was very happy that you gave it (and you might have been right in the end). In contrast, imagine if the first that (that utter fool) B. Johnson heard from HRH Elizabeth II that she was unhappy about a bill passed by Parliament was that she refused assent to it. Talossa's constitutional monarchy only has a future if the Monarchy collaborates with the elected Government. This Government - and I will release emails if necessary - has done everything necessary to ask the Monarchy for advice/encouragement/warnings about what we think will be controversial issues. Half the time you don't even reply. I will warn you and the nation at this point: if you insist on a tactic of confrontation rather than collaboration with the elected Government, you will not win. In fact, you are more likely to split Talossa again.
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Post by Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h on Aug 13, 2019 11:04:11 GMT -6
Oh gee. You accuse me of endangering people's "mental health". I say, Pshaw, no such thing, don't exaggerate. And now you are "honestly upset" and offended at my answer. John, you and I both rightly admire Queen Elizabeth II. Every week, she meets with her Prime Minister in confidence. It is a chance for the PM to 'dish' and for her to get the low-down on what's really going on with government. Have you ever had such regular meet-ups with any PM? Have you ever had such meetings with the current PM? Thank you for your candor here. It is clear to me what we have had between you and 'us' is a case of mismanaged expectations. 'We' expect you to use your veto-power only in direst need, keeping yourself above the fray and drama of politics. '...what I think of as a happy future.' indicates to me you are a fully-political monarch. And with the current hereditary aspect of the monarchy, to have a political monarch is not good. If things that way are let be, your house could remain on the Throne indefinitely. I do not look at you as a 'rogue' monarch. Ben became a rogue monarch, and thanks be to God, you have not descended to that level and never will. I think what is also going on is there is still unfinished business from the 2005-2011 period when you, I believe, aided the 'Betrayed, Stolen, Kept' culture, making us out to look like heartless quitters and thugs. Yes, the way in which we put the Split into action was badly done. We only ever should have kicked Ben and Amy off Witt - not the entire country who wasn't as frothing at the mouth as we were. (It still baffles me why more people weren't as angry as we.) You wonder why we didn't make a quick return in August 2005 to the Kingdom? It was partly because the Betrayed-Stolen-Kept mantra had by that short time become so engrained in the Kingdom culture we knew were we to come back, we would be regarded with suspicion and as second-class citizens. Why would anyone want to join a group where one would be hated? We also were heavily invested in our new constitutional law and regarded the idea of monarchy (Talossa and elsewhere) with great suspicion. The only person in the Republic to have been a Talossan monarchist in any sense of the word was yours truly. Consequently, I was in political outer darkness for a time. Yes, we set for you many hoops for you and others to jump through to make Reunision happen. Yes, I, for one, still appreciate you going through all that trouble. We were not the easiest people to negotiate with. Reunision de jure took place 20 April 2012. But I think you and I can agree Reunision de facto and Reunision-of-the-heart has come nowhere near to coming to pass. And calling Miestrâ a snowflake (in so many words) does not help. John, I've never met you in person, but you and I have talked voice-to-voice at least twice. From those conversations and from your pixels on Witt, I've always been impressed with your fire for Talossa and life in general. I have also been impressed with your ability to rise above the fray, say a few words, and put an end to whatever is going on. Your leadership in the I. Canun situation was decisive and helped to calm us down. However, every leader lays an egg of one sort or another. Your accession was 14 March 2007. Why was one of your first acts as King of Talossa not coming to our Republic-Witt or through private channels to say 'Come home. We believe you.'? Had you made genuine overtures of one sort or another, the first six months of your reign would have been, I believe, marked by our return and the return of a Talossa well and as whole as could be. It's still not too late to do that in 2019.
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