Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 10, 2019 16:19:54 GMT -6
This is to inform the public that the Acting Interior Minister, Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu, has submitted to Cabinet a draft scheme for a unified Talossan Honours System, bringing together the chivalric orders in the gift of the King with a set of civil decorations including "Seneschál's medals". This draft is currently with the King for his comments and so we won't be releasing it yet. So why am I even mentioning it now? Because Talossa is pretty quiet at the moment and I don't want to give any ammunition to those pushing the "do-nothing Government" meme, lol. I should also note that measures to transition to a new Wittenberg and national webspace also continue, in the background.
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Post by Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h on Jul 11, 2019 1:49:41 GMT -6
And here's hoping the relevant people (not you, PM) will do all they can to see how this board can be quickly archived...
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Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN
Seneschal
the new Jim Hacker
Posts: 6,635
Talossan Since: 6-25-2004
Dame Since: 9-8-2012
Motto: Expulseascâ, reveneascâ
Baron Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
Duke Since: Feudal titles are for gimps
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Post by Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN on Jul 21, 2019 16:31:41 GMT -6
Well, the King hasn't provided any comments. Perhaps his over-eager spam trap ate it. Well, here we are, Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu 's draft:
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Post by E.S. Bornatfiglheu on Jul 23, 2019 5:53:54 GMT -6
I do think that there is something to a system of honours. But in looking at this, I do have some thoughts.
1.) Do the dynastic orders have any place in Talossan statutory law? If they are created, as it were, by fiat of the monarch, then they don't seem to belong there. At least in my thinking, if the Ziu passes the law, then it was established by the Ziu. I might be making much out of nothing here.
2.) There are Seneschal medals for Arts, Culture, and Literature/Languages. Do we need all three separated?
3.) Why so many post-nominals? Is it because that is the most efficient method of display?
4.) What sort of process is there for these awards? Is some sort of nomination form something that the Culture (or Interior) Ministries should start thinking about? Or is it just left to wait for the awarding authority to notice the work?
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Glüc da Dhi
Secretary of State
Posts: 6,112
Talossan Since: 5-14-2009
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Post by Glüc da Dhi on Jul 23, 2019 6:42:27 GMT -6
I think this is a great initiative and I appreciate the work that has been put in.
That said, having two service decorations 50% devoted to the military feels a bit disproportionate if you compare the actual contribution to the growth and community building of Talossa of the military on the one hand and all kinds of web-building, cultural, political, social, journalistic, story telling, administrative, financial roles in which people have served Talossa on the other hand. (Not to discourage those who are working hard on setting up a more functional military or rule out the possibility of the military perhaps playing a bigger role in the future.)
I'm also loathe to have a public opinion on orders of knighthood as I really feel these are the perogative of His Majesty, but again adding a military order to the existing orders, where there hasn't been any real conflict or role to play for the military that shaped Talossa in the same way as the current knights have done feels a bit out of place.
Under this system who awards these "Meritous Service Decorations"?
(Also agreed with the above comment that maybe Arts, Culture and Literature don't all need to be separate.)
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Post by E.S. Bornatfiglheu on Jul 24, 2019 6:37:18 GMT -6
That said, having two service decorations 50% devoted to the military feels a bit disproportionate if you compare the actual contribution to the growth and community building of Talossa of the military on the one hand and all kinds of web-building, cultural, political, social, journalistic, story telling, administrative, financial roles in which people have served Talossa on the other hand. (Not to discourage those who are working hard on setting up a more functional military or rule out the possibility of the military perhaps playing a bigger role in the future.) This points, at least in part, to a very interesting question, being "What is the contribution of the Talossan military?" I know I'm wandering into the weeds a little, but what would meritorious military service look like? Might it be worth thinking about tying military service to Talossan infrastructure in some way? Discussion for another place.
Anyhow. I think the honours proposal (with perhaps the exception of the dynastic orders... would love to hear what the King has to say on the issue) is fundamentally sound in theory.
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on Jul 27, 2019 11:52:05 GMT -6
I have to agree with Glüc here. While S:r Davinescu's effort has to be commanded, this proposal feels way oversized and also very unbalanced towards the military; I can understand it, given that he's possibly one of the only Talossans who are actively working in it, but I really feel the end result is very ad personam. I hope that the underlying intention was to draw more interest in the military, but I'm afraid it would never play enough of a part to warrant so many honours. Even a derivatist wouldn't say our military is as proportionally important in our life as a real nation's, for Pete's sake. As Glüc said,
Personally, I don't see any need for any other order than Per la Naziun and the Purple Tongue. The other orders are either very niche (Sabre), essentially unawardable (Flag) or basically redundant (Merit).
As for the decorations, the MSC is entirely replaceable by the S.H. or the Seneschal's Medal, and the MSM is, again, niche; so I would stick again to just the first two, which for a nation the size of Talossa are more than enough.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Jul 27, 2019 13:01:35 GMT -6
Every classification of acts worthy of a meritorious service decoration is not something many Talossans have opportunity to do. Also, it mentions "highly professional acts", when, in point of fact, none of us is doing this professionally, nor applying militarily inclined skills one might otherwise be paid to use.
Adding in that there are actually two levels of this class of decorations takes it from appropriately wistful, as all Talossan things are, to rather ridiculous.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 27, 2019 18:23:23 GMT -6
There are already plenty of awards. There is already too much military stuff. It should be converted into a goofy, pseudomilitary cultural organization which allows for plentiful positive feedback in the form of frequent "promotions" to higher ranks in recognition of completed tasks like translations into Talossan.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Jul 27, 2019 18:28:34 GMT -6
There are already plenty of awards. But all of them require so much work that you need to be a citizen for many years to even have a hope of getting one (as it should be with knighthoods and the Senatorial Medal of Honor). However, it would be nice to recognize those achievements or series thereof that, while noteworthy, don't quite get to the level of a knighthood. How about we let people do what they want with it?
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 27, 2019 18:34:43 GMT -6
Fair point. Add in something that the Seneschal can give, then, and call it a day. We have feudal titles for royal recognition, the Medal for Ziu recognition, so how about a Seneschal's Ribbon with an appropriately fancy name, given by the Seneschal for significant achievements of merit in service to the country?
And as far as I can see, no one has ever done anything worthwhile with the military. And this is speaking as someone who was a Lieutenant in the Zuoaves for like seven years. Militaries are supposed to serve the national interest.... put ours to work where we actually need it. Translate a poem and get promoted to PFC. Translate a short story to get to corporal. Etc.
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Post by Audrada Rôibeardét on Jul 27, 2019 18:56:38 GMT -6
I don't really see a need for a military at all. It's pointless. I think we have a military because other countries have them.
Really shouldn't be any military awards.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on Jul 27, 2019 19:04:20 GMT -6
And as far as I can see, no one has ever done anything worthwhile with the military. And this is speaking as someone who was a Lieutenant in the Zuoaves for like seven years. Militaries are supposed to serve the national interest.... put ours to work where we actually need it. Translate a poem and get promoted to PFC. Translate a short story to get to corporal. Etc. Talossa is a place where you can be an important person in an institution where you would not otherwise be able to be an important person. I think that is an unique draw for Talossa, and we should make it available in as any areas as we can. Making the military more focused on culture is not going to make everyone who is interested in the military suddenly become interested in culture. It will just take away something that makes people interested in Talossa, regardless of whether you think it is worthwhile or not.
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Iac Marscheir
Citizen of Talossa
yak marsh air
Posts: 782
Talossan Since: 12-3-2016
Baron Since: Qet Miestra tent zirada.
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Post by Iac Marscheir on Jul 27, 2019 19:12:55 GMT -6
Besides, if 20th century China is any indicator, giving the military a vested interest in cultural affairs isn't a good idea.
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Post by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on Jul 27, 2019 19:22:57 GMT -6
And as far as I can see, no one has ever done anything worthwhile with the military. And this is speaking as someone who was a Lieutenant in the Zuoaves for like seven years. Militaries are supposed to serve the national interest.... put ours to work where we actually need it. Translate a poem and get promoted to PFC. Translate a short story to get to corporal. Etc. Talossa is a place where you can be an important person in an institution where you would not otherwise be able to be an important person. I think that is an unique draw for Talossa, and we should make it available in as any areas as we can. Making the military more focused on culture is not going to make everyone who is interested in the military suddenly become interested in culture. It will just take away something that makes people interested in Talossa, regardless of whether you think it is worthwhile or not. I agree, we would be losing the interest of the small handful of people who get really into making and assigning ranks and such. T.M. Asmourescu, T. Davinescu, etc. But one of the reasons the military is lame is because there's zero chance of doing anything at all besides reorganizing, awarding ranks, and so on. And that gets old super-quickly, if history is any guide. If the military was a cultural force, then there's be a chance of actually achieving something and advancing. Being an admiral right now is meaningless. There are some folks who still just get a kick out of thinking of themselves as an admiral, I'll admit. Asmourescu thought that was so neat he actually passed a whole system of naval retirement that was specifically tailor-made so that he personally could then retire as a perpetual vice-admiral. But there's a good chance that if being an admiral meant you actually knew some Talossan because you'd meaningfully earned the rank, then it would actually make the military a worthwhile thing while also promoting the language. Someone with a high rank would have demonstrated actual skills and accomplishments beyond "vague interest in military cosplay." Or heck, if you want to preserve that, then leave the Navy as the cosplay thing and make the Zuoaves the cultural branch. Best of both worlds.
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