Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Jun 16, 2019 10:31:59 GMT -6
Whereas, on 12 June 2019, a citizenship application was posted to the Immigration Forum on Wittenberg;
Whereas, said application was submitted by applicant Robert Ben Madison;
Whereas, the applicant has a long, complicated history with the Talossan nation;
Whereas, the Cosa, pursuant to el Lexhatx § E.8, has pass a resolution with the requisite one-third support, to block the petition;
Whereas, the Senate possesses equal authority and desires to be heard on the matter;
Therefore, the Senator from the United Provinces of Vuode and Dandenburg hereby petitions this august Chamber to debate and discuss the merits of the applicant's petition and potential readmission;
Further, upon the conclusion of a period of debate for one week, a vote for the Sense of the Senate shall occur to determine if there is the requisite one-third support for the blocking of the applicant's petition until such time as the Ziu directs the issuance of a grant;
Finally, the Senator from the United Provinces respectfully refers this matter to the Lord President of the Senate Lüc da Schir to set forth the parameters of the debate.
Post by Ian Plätschisch on Jun 16, 2019 11:02:25 GMT -6
With respect to the Senator, could this debate not occur when such a bill granting S:reu Madison citizenship is brought up for a vote? If no such bill is ever proposed, I see no reason to waste our breathe.
Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Jun 16, 2019 11:05:54 GMT -6
I don't disagree with your proposition. But I've gotten the impression that the Senate, as a separate house, would like the opportunity to be heard in the initial referral. I recognize that this would have no legal effect, hence it styled as a Sense of the Senate. I am of the mind that a Senate resolution supporting the Cosa's petition would be bipartisan and remove some of the politicization of the matter.
Post by Ian Plätschisch on Jun 16, 2019 11:11:01 GMT -6
I certainly appreciate efforts to make the voice of the Senate heard, although I do not believe that a Sense of the Senate is the correct avenue for determining whether there is enough support to invoke E.8 (since any group of three Senators can do so at any time without a vote). More appropriate in my opinion would be to pass a Sense of the Senate expressing our opinion on his reimmigration in general, although I am not even sure about the necessity of that given S:reu Madison has not even visited Wittenberg during the past few days.
Post by Viteu Marcianüs on Jun 16, 2019 11:22:49 GMT -6
Partially agreed. The criticism of the Cosa's action, whether warranted or not, has been that it was not presented to the Cosa for consideration. Hence its perception as partisan. I'm merely trying to mitigate that issue and depoliticize the matter. I would support a resolution by the Senate in its own right to refer the matter to the Ziu, or rather, one in support of the Cosa, if there are two other Senators on board. But I felt it better to present the question first to the Chamber for discussion.
This may well be a waste of breath, but hey, if we can set up some type of convention for how to approach this in the future, why not give it a try?
Post by Lüc da Schir on Jun 17, 2019 10:58:36 GMT -6
The petition is hereby granted, and the Senate will now debate the merits of the Madison petition as requested.
Debate is now open with no limits on the number and length of interventions, until the same time of this post on Sunday 23rd. I will thereafter pose the question on the Sense of the Senate, which vote will be open for a further week, or earlier if a majority of Senators votes in the same way, and will be adjudicated by simple majority.
For the purpose of holding the debate, I am required by the Standing Rules to announce that the Senate will NOT take its standard recess when the Clark finishes on the 21st.
Post by Sevastáin Pinátsch on Jun 18, 2019 8:22:58 GMT -6
Given the amount of debate and complaint about the quietness of our nationette, Robert Ben Madison 's reappearance couldn't have happened at a better time.
Clearly there are unresolved issues going back two decades, and I think allowing him in here to face his critics -- to prove himself a changed man or establish that he's still everything they allege -- would be a useful exercise in our growth and healing, just as the Reunision was.
Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on Jun 24, 2019 21:18:35 GMT -6
I don’t oppose this motion in substance, but I do mildly take issue with the characterization of the E.8 petition that has already been submitted as a “resolution” that was “passed” by the Cosa. My interpretation is that an E.8 petition is the act of the individual MCs who sign it, not of the Cosa as a body, and there is no need for them to consult the body as a whole before submitting a petition. Similarly, I don’t question that a sense of the Senäts resolution like this could be an effective means of submitting an E.8 petition by senators (though it does seem odd to me to have a resolution that is understood to “pass” even if opposed by a majority of the body) but I do not believe such a resolution is necessary.
Post by Lüc da Schir on Jun 25, 2019 0:15:32 GMT -6
Before asking the question, let me briefly touch on what Sir Cresti mentioned. As I see it, this Sense of the Senate is not an E.8 petition; it is merely a vehicle for debate on the Madison reimmigration, and for gauging the opinions of all the Senators on that matter in a non binding way.
Again, as I see it, it would not be in order for the Senate to debate and pass any motion that doesn't require a majority of votes to be carried. If the Senate wishes to do so, members will present a proper E.8 petition and time will be allotted for others to co-sign and debate its merits. No vote is taken on petitions.
Furthermore, presenting an E.8 petition is now wholly meaningless, seeing as certain Members of the Cosa have already acted on it; all the more reasons to use this Sense of the Senate - a vehicle that allows us debate and reasoning, and gives everyone a vote - as an alternate, nonbinding way to make sure this House is heard.
That said, the question was moved and I must now put the question.