NON on 53RZ01

[Eðo Grischun]

May 2, 2019 4:58:07 GMT -6 Lüc da Schir said:

My issue is slightly different, and it was the same opposition I had to the MM-VD fusion: it doesn't take into account the bigger picture. I'm not opposed to provincial mergers, mind you, but I'd greatly prefer to see a general overhaul that brought us down to (say) just four feasible provinces, rather than merging two and leaving the rest up in the air.

That said, I actually sort of like Glüc da Dhi 's proposal in the shoutbox (KA+CZ, VD+BE, MA+MM). You could even move some cantons around to make all provinces contiguous (save for KA+CZ of course). Again though, unless a general provincial reform happens, I'd be reluctant to vote for bills that leave 3/4ths of provinces unreformed, hung out to dry.

The proposed MM-VD merge wouldn't have left the rest up in the air though (I don't think so, at least). I would say the proposed merger was intended to solve the problem of VD, itself, being up in the air. The reason I wanted VD to merge with another province was because VD had terrible activity problems. In all the time that I've been Talossan, VD has only ever had one, two or three active citizens at any given time. There have been multiple occasions where the local assembly has failed to convene and, similarly, there have been multiple occasions where the executive offices have sat vacant. Additionally, our immigration catchment areas don't seem to attract meaningful numbers. All the provinces have issues of a similar nature, but I truly think VD has suffered the worst. I believed, and still do, that VD merging with a slightly more active province would have been for it's betterment and I don't think the other provinces would have suffered as a result of not having their own mergers elsewhere.

As for which province VD should merge with, I still think MM would be the preferred choice, not Benito.

One reason why is logistical: Both provinces share a border on a parcel of land that splits straight through a historical landmark. This border also halves what should rightly be a whole, single Parish into two Parishes, one for each Province. There isn't a territorial dispute. Both provinces recognize that they each have control over one half of the "parish", but there is a dispute in regards to the historic watertower. One half of the building lies in MM while the other half lies in VD. A merger of VD and MM while redrawing the Parish line to make Watertower a whole Parish would solve this dispute.

Second, I think VD and MM are closer to each other in flavour of character that VD and BE are. I would think Benito and Cezembre would make the logical partnering considering all things European.

Also, the citizens of MM and the citizens of VD have built a rapport over the years. We share in-jokes, etc.

I would prefer to see KA+MA, VD+MM, BE+CZ, FL+FV. I'd also be fine with KA and MA not merging and for use to have 5 provinces.

[Viteu Marcianüs]

So, in sum, we scoff at incremental change because it doesn't conform to the overall change we want to see?

I'm not necessarily anti or pro merger. I believe it is up to the provinces. Ugliness of map, in my estimation, is a poor excuse. The concern should always pay deference  to the people at issue. I don't pretend to make windows into the minds of the voters of either province subject this act. Therefore, I shall vote per and trust in their better judgement to determine self rule. As I would hope other senators and elected officials would if this bill concerned Vuode. 

Edit*- perhaps I missed it, what say the senators from those provinces? That, to correct the former, will inform my vote. 

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

May 3, 2019 19:59:13 GMT -6 Viteu Marcianüs said:

Edit*- perhaps I missed it, what say the senators from those provinces? That, to correct the former, will inform my vote. 

Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h is pro-merger; no word from Senator Ventrútx yet, although of course Governor Carbonel is for it.

[Miestrâ Schivâ, UrN]

May 3, 2019 19:27:09 GMT -6 Eðo Grischun said:

As for which province VD should merge with, I still think MM would be the preferred choice, not Benito.

This is also supported by the fact that the original Maritiimi province is now the Dûn Cestoûr canton of Vuode (see National Atlas of the Kingdom of Talossa, p. 29)

[Ian Plätschisch]

May 3, 2019 7:38:08 GMT -6 E.S. Bornatfiglheu said:

Connection is overrated, particularly as we do not exercise sovereignty over that land as it is. But even if we did, there is plenty of precedent for discontinuous polities. Virginia's Eastern Shore, Michigan's Upper Peninsula, the initial partition of India and Pakistan [not an amazing example, I know], Rhode Island's Newport County, Alaska... etc. I cannot help but feel that the will of the people of a province is far more important that "geographical realities."

None of your examples are particularly good comparisons for the current situation. Virginia's Eastern Shore and the UP are still contiguous over water (and the only reason Michigan even has the UP was to resolve the Toledo War). The partition of India and Pakistan and the discontinuity of Alaska from the rest of the US both involve international borders. Newport County is a series of islands.

I also am deeply skeptical about a top-down reorganization of the provinces. Put simply, there is too much at stake to trust it to a form of central planning. However, if an active people of a province see a problem and seek a merger, this is a different kettle of fish. It is an actual response to the situation on the ground.

I am pretty skeptical about the feasibility of waiting for more mergers to happen on their own. The present bill excluded, I don't imagine that many other provinces would give up half of their power in the Senate unless they were assured that all the other provinces would do so as well.

My preferred combination would be either VD + MM, FV + MA, KA + CZ, and BE + FL, or leaving CZ its own province (with added catchment area) and VD + MM, FV + MA + FL, and KA + BE.

[Ian Plätschisch]

Here is an idea:


If Maricopa and Florencia can agree to swap Sandadia for Florencia, all of the problems will be solved (even concerns about leaving other provinces out to dry because there will still be lots of other provinces around for the rest to merge with)