Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on May 1, 2019 5:23:32 GMT -6
Esteemed colleagues, it is my pleasure to open debate on the First Clark of the 53rd Cosa. The Order Paper of this month can be found at this link. On the Clark: 53RZ01 – The Fantastic Fusion of Fiova and Florencia Bill Introduced by the Most Hon. Miestrâ Schivâ (MC-FreeDems), Seneschal 53RZ02 – The Civil Service (Commissioner Abolition) Bill Introduced by the Most Hon. Miestrâ Schivâ (MC-FreeDems), Seneschal 53RZ03 – The Hopper Needs a Sheriff Bill Introduced by the Most Hon. Miestrâ Schivâ (MC-FreeDems), Seneschal 53RZ04 – The Holidays and Observances Amendment Act Introduced by the Most Hon. Miestrâ Schivâ (MC-FreeDems), Seneschal 53RZ05 – The Parliamentary Contact Info Accessibility Act Introduced by Lüc da Schir (Senator-BE) 53RZ06 – The Trapped Dandelions Act Introduced by Lüc da Schir (Senator-BE) 53RZ07 – The Mega-Amendment Introduced by Alexandreu Davinescu (MC-RUMP) 53RZ08 – The Witt Moderation Act Introduced by Alexandreu Davinescu (MC-RUMP) 53RZ09 – The Nationalisation of a Peculiar Wittenberg Act Introduced by Eovárt Grischun (MC-RUMP)
Additionally, no Resolutions of the Senate have been presented.
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Post by Gödafrïeu Válcadác’h on May 1, 2019 15:45:38 GMT -6
53RZ1: Për 53RZ2: Për 53RZ3: Për 53RZ4: Për 53RZ5: Për 53RZ6: Për 53RZ7: Contrâ 53RZ8: Contrâ 53RZ9: Contrâ
Question regarding the Order Paper: "The Senate is in session since April 28th 2019/XL, until the end of business for the First Cosa." - Not sure what is meant by 'First Cosa'.
Many thanks, Lüc, however, for your continuing exemplary work as our presiding officer. Supporting your nomination was very easy.
And many congratulations to our new Seneschal. This Cosâ will be very exciting to watch.
GV, Fiôvâ
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on May 1, 2019 16:23:38 GMT -6
Question regarding the Order Paper: "The Senate is in session since April 28th 2019/XL, until the end of business for the First Cosa." - Not sure what is meant by 'First Cosa'. Apologies for the misprint, I'll immediately issue a corrected version.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on May 15, 2019 11:36:25 GMT -6
53RZ1 - Contrâ: If Florencia and Maricopa are willing to make the trade I proposed, then I will support the merger if it comes before the Ziu again AUS
53RZ2 - Për
53RZ3 - Për
53RZ4 - Për
53RZ5 - Për
53RZ6 - Për
53RZ7 - Contrâ: The entire thing would be immediately repealed by my own amendment, which is ready for the next Clark
53RZ8 - Contrâ
53RZ9 - Contrâ: I will be happy to revisit RZ8 and RZ9 at a later date if the Government plan does not pan out
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on May 19, 2019 9:38:20 GMT -6
53RZ1 - Për: With all due respect to the Senator immediately preceding my vote--recognize that you, a senator representing an entirely different constituency, are holding hostage the ability of two provinces to determine their own destinies, either by making that one destiny or keeping them separate. This really isn't your place. Respectfully, of course.
53RZ2 - Për
53RZ3 - Për: I see this as largely a ceremonial role, hence my support. The Speaker cannot punish or remove a sitting MC, but I do think that keeping this ceremonial for the time being, to establish convention before changing the Organic Law to allow some enforcement capability, is wise.
53RZ4 - Për
53RZ5 - Për: The United Provinces shall introduce the appropriate legislation shortly.
53RZ6 - Për: I applaud the good Senator's common sense here.
53RZ7 - Contrâ: I don't think anyone is surprised by this.
53RZ8 - Contrâ: The act rests upon shaky moral high ground. I also am not particularly a fan of setting law that is, ab initio, inorganic.
53RZ9 - Abstain: I think the MC advancing this bill is well-intentioned, but as I vote today, I cannot support this until the Government's plan, which I support, pans out. I abstain because I am not inherently opposed to this bill, and would consider it in due course in the future if necessary.
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on May 19, 2019 11:42:17 GMT -6
53RZ1 - Për: With all due respect to the Senator immediately preceding my vote--recognize that you, a senator representing an entirely different constituency, are holding hostage the ability of two provinces to determine their own destinies, either by making that one destiny or keeping them separate. This really isn't your place. Respectfully, of course. If nobody is supposed to vote anything but Për on this issue, why does it even have to come before the Ziu at all? I must assume there is good reason for it; otherwise someone probably would have proposed an amendment to remove the Ziu's authority over mergers by now. I would be happy to engage in that debate (and I might even support such a change), but until that happens I am going to exercise the power Organically vested in the Ziu the way I think is proper.
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Post by Viteu Marcianüs on May 19, 2019 12:15:49 GMT -6
53RZ1 - Për: With all due respect to the Senator immediately preceding my vote--recognize that you, a senator representing an entirely different constituency, are holding hostage the ability of two provinces to determine their own destinies, either by making that one destiny or keeping them separate. This really isn't your place. Respectfully, of course. If nobody is supposed to vote anything but Për on this issue, why does it even have to come before the Ziu at all? I must assume there is good reason for it; otherwise someone probably would have proposed an amendment to remove the Ziu's authority over mergers by now. I would be happy to engage in that debate (and I might even support such a change), but until that happens I am going to exercise the power Organically vested in the Ziu the way I think is proper. The legality and authority to engage in conduct does not always inform the propriety of that action. For instance, as as a sitting MZ, I have the Organic authority to engage in debate in any way I see fit, including use of language that some of our Victorian and puritanical fellow members would call "vulgar." Does my Organic right to do so inform the propriety of doing so? That is the ongoing question. And, as has been expressed to me, simply because you can doesn't mean you should. Notice, I never said you did not have the Organic authority to vote as you did, or to hold the opinion that you did. I called into question, however, the propriety of your rationale, as you have done when I choose to engage in my organically protected speech as an MZ to engage in debate within the Ziu and Hopper in a manner that you find vulgar. Applying your logic to the foregoing, one can extrapolate support for a position by the lack of Organic authority speaking to the contrary. Thus, the Organic Law clearly supports (and it must be the intent of) my ability to use so-called vulgarities when engaging debate in the Ziu and Hopper simply because it does not prohibit or contain a mechanism to enforce punishment against that conduct. I trust you can see the problem with your logic. Turning back to my point--I did not say "this really isn't your place" to mean you must vote Për, I said it isn't your place because I find your rationale wonky, something I have expressed elsewhere. For the most part, your entire premise in opposing the merger is not opposition to merger per se, which I would not agree with but would, in my estimation, be appropriate, but simply because it would create a province that lacks geographic continuity. You do this ignoring that the elected officials of those provinces really take no issue with not having geography continuity. But, as stated, I find that position to be nonsensical. Nevertheless, you propose that a third province, Maricopa, engage in some activity (trade cantons) for the sole purpose of geographic continuity. So now the choice of two provinces to merge would become subject to the whim of a third province, who then must vote on whether to approve the land trade. So again, what you are proposing to do is to hold hostage the ability of two provinces to decide their own fates merely because you don't like the idea that they wouldn't be connected, and in so doing, would hold them further hostage to decide their fate by allowing another province to dictate whether they can even decide their fate in the first place. Yes, Senator, you have the ability to vote Contra. I do not question your authority to do so. Yes, you can do so for any reasons you deem appropriate. I do not question your authority to do so. Just as you have that authority, I have the same authority to say that I think your reasoning to cast that vote is meritless and improper as it relates to respecting the will of the people of those provinces to decide for themselves. I do note, however, that ever single MZ from Fiova has voted in the affirmative. There is support for the measure from Florencia Governor Carbonel. So, as it stands, there seems to be support from the two impacted provinces. I said that this would inform my decision, and absent anything to the contrary two days before the final vote, I believe that it is proper to respect the ability of a sophisticated citizenry (i.e. Fiova and Florencia) to make the best choice for themselves when their elected leaders seem to support the measures. I waited until two days before the Clark closes to change my mind. It hasn't. Who are we, as outsiders, to push our agenda on them? Who are we, as outsiders, to hold hostage their right to self-determination? That is what I call improper, Senator. Not, as you purport, your ability to vote contra. (As an aside, I note my astonishment that there is not a single MC from Florenica at the moment.)
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Ian Plätschisch
Senator for Maritiimi-Maxhestic
Posts: 4,001
Talossan Since: 3-21-2015
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Post by Ian Plätschisch on May 19, 2019 12:32:38 GMT -6
53RZ1 - AUS
This is not the hill I feel like dying on.
(I still think there is a difference between the Organic Law not making it illegal to perform a certain activity and the Organic Law explicitly giving the Ziu a vote over a certain issue)
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Sir C. M. Siervicül
Posts: 9,636
Talossan Since: 8-13-2005
Knight Since: 7-28-2007
Motto: Nonnisi Deo serviendum
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Post by Sir C. M. Siervicül on May 20, 2019 18:14:17 GMT -6
I vote on this month's Clark as follows:
RZ1: Contra. RZ2: Per. RZ3: Contra. RZ4: Contra. RZ5: Austanéu. RZ6: Contra, as of dubious organicity. RZ7: Per. RZ8: Contra. RZ9: Contra.
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Jordan Placie
Citizen of Talossa
Posts: 95
Talossan Since: 6-17-2016
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Post by Jordan Placie on May 21, 2019 6:54:06 GMT -6
53RZ1 - Contrâ
53RZ2 - Për
53RZ3 - Për
53RZ4 - Për
53RZ5 - Për
53RZ6 - Për
53RZ7 - Contrâ:
53RZ8 - Contrâ
53RZ9 - Contrâ
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Lüc da Schir
Senator for Benito
If Italy wins a Six Nations match I will join the Zouaves
Posts: 4,125
Talossan Since: 3-21-2012
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Post by Lüc da Schir on May 21, 2019 7:07:15 GMT -6
53RZ1 - Contrâ 53RZ2 - Për 53RZ3 - Për 53RZ4 - Për 53RZ5 - Për 53RZ6 - Për 53RZ7 - Contrâ: 53RZ8 - Contrâ 53RZ9 - Contrâ S:reu Placie, I regret to inform you that you cannot cast your vote here, as you are not a Senator. As a Member of the Cosa, I advise you to also vote on the Vote of Confidence or risk your entire slate of votes to be discarded by the Secretary of State pursuant to law.
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